Another new Brexit thread

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bluethrunthru said:
Oswaldtwistle by James Hargreaves. Basic social and economic history. And mills started in the Peak District and Lancashire.
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Perhaps if you are of a certain age and grew up in the North West. My generation (millennials), at least in the school I went to, we didn't learn this in any depth in school. If I was interested in that part of history I would have been more inclined to look it up, but I was only interested in the analogy. I didn't check the accuracy of the argument from an otherwise reliable source (economist not historian), which was from a podcast, so it's not easy to go back and check to see if he said Scotland/Lancashire/UK and how much was down to me mis-remembering or him.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
The arrogance is breathtaking .... you Brexiteers simply dont care do you ? True Conservatives.
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You and a few others are obsessed with the Conservatives and absolutely determined to label every Brexit supporter as being one

That despite all the evidence - especially on this forum - that you have it badly wrong

It seems to be some pack-thinking.....

Conservatives = bad - so label anyone supporting anything that you do not like as being a Conservative, Better still Boris luvvies or yet better - a Trump supporter

You and others appear to have only a tenuous link to the truth of matters - and little shame about that
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Perhaps if you are of a certain age and grew up in the North West. My generation (millennials), at least in the school I went to, we didn't learn this in any depth in school. If I was interested in that part of history I would have been more inclined to look it up, but I was only interested in the analogy. I didn't check the accuracy of the argument from an otherwise reliable source (economist not historian), which was from a podcast, so it's not easy to go back and check to see if he said Scotland/Lancashire/UK and how much was down to me mis-remembering or him.
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Not having a pop mate - just that if you went to school on the 60's and 70's that was meat and drink to us - IT studies.......errr nah - a pocket calculator and a casio digital watch was rocket science to us lol
 
bluethrunthru said:
Not having a pop mate - just that if you went to school on the 60's and 70's that was meat and drink to us - IT studies.......errr nah - a pocket calculator and a casio digital watch was rocket science to us lol
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Fair enough mate, didn't think you were. Would have better if we had learnt some of that period of history rather than performative teaching of subjects like textiles and business studies (project based, no actual teaching about company admin or econ) for an hour every fortnight.
 
As we wait to see whether Johnson takes the deal or not (no rush, mate), I rather enjoyed this take on the queues in Kent...

‘You want to know what the real bad news is here? It's not that there are queues for miles just because the French customs authorities are "trialling post-Brexit boarding systems".

It's that we aren't’ @tradeandborders

www.kentonline.co.uk

Brexit trial creates lorry queue at Eurotunnel

Drivers were barred from entering the M20 as lorries queued for three miles to access Eurotunnel as post-Brexit boarding systems were trialled.
www.kentonline.co.uk www.kentonline.co.uk
 
Been a slow day - thought that I would share this article that I came across.

Most, understandably, will not bother - it needs 5-10mins to read - but I found it chimed in a few places with the experiences that I have found on here over the years - it might with others (Remainers or Leavers)

It sets out some considerations of how and why, following the referendum, the attitudes of Remainers to Leavers did not help the cause to get Brexit over-turned.

I cannot be bothered researching - but I don't think the source is either pro-Leave of Pro-Remain - it just seemed to me to offer a recognisable analysis:

Why did the Remainers fail to keep Britain in the EU? | TheArticle

Edit: One of the links in that article - to a Politico analysis piece - so not pro-Leave - also really did strike some chords and helped me to appreciate the likely causes of the behaviour of some individual posters on here.

I guess if we Leavers can accept that individuals have been caused genuine psychological trauma - whilst we have not - then we can perhaps find it easier to have more empathy?

Britain’s middle-class Brexit Anxiety Disorder – POLITICO

Together though, these 2 articles might get across to some of the Remainers - just how they have been presenting themselves and a few pennies might drop
 
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bluethrunthru said:
Not having a pop mate - just that if you went to school on the 60's and 70's that was meat and drink to us - IT studies.......errr nah - a pocket calculator and a casio digital watch was rocket science to us lol
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You were lucky. An abacus and a slate was luxury to us.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Fair enough mate, didn't think you were. Would have better if we had learnt some of that period of history rather than performative teaching of subjects like textiles and business studies (project based, no actual teaching about company admin or econ) for an hour every fortnight.
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sometimes history can be fun



sometimes sombre ( Richard Holmes was great ) - it just needs to be informative and factual

 
mcfc1632 said:
Been a slow day - thought that I would share this article that I came across.

Most will not bother - it needs 5-10mins to read - but I found it chimed in a few places with the experiences that I have found on here over the years - it might with others (Remainers or Leavers)

It sets out some considerations of how and why, following the referendum, the attitudes of Remainers to Leavers did not help the cause to get Brexit over-turned.

I cannot be bothered researching - but I don't think the source if either pro-Leave of Pro-Remain - it just seemed to me to offer a recognisable analysis:

Why did the Remainers fail to keep Britain in the EU? | TheArticle
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It offers a recognisable analysis because it is basically the same as your analysis. Its as balanced as an elephant on a unicycle. Indeed you could have written it.

Remainers obsessed by Empire? That made me chuckle. The conclusion;
'The Remainers were never a bunch of hopeless dreamers who didn’t stand a chance. They came tantalisingly close to success in the autumn of 2019. All they had to do was band themselves together into a government of national unity, and they would have been home and dry.'

Is that all they had to do? Damn it we missed a trick there. A tactical coalition between a Labour lead Corbyn and the Lib dems? Fuck sake. Where do you find this shite? Did you actually read it past the glib cliches of what Remainers think of Leavers?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It offers a recognisable analysis because it is basically the same as your analysis. Its as balanced as an elephant on a unicycle. Indeed you could have written it.

Remainers obsessed by Empire? That made me chuckle. The conclusion;
'The Remainers were never a bunch of hopeless dreamers who didn’t stand a chance. They came tantalisingly close to success in the autumn of 2019. All they had to do was band themselves together into a government of national unity, and they would have been home and dry.'

Is that all they had to do? Damn it we missed a trick there. A tactical coalition between a Labour lead Corbyn and the Lib dems? Fuck sake. Where do you find this shite? Did you actually read it past the glib cliches of what Remainers think of Leavers?
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Yeah - I can recognise that seems a bit of a glib to you.

On the other hand, I would suggest that it is a lot more informative than we have seen presented on here from the twittersphere on 100s of occasions

Hey - I was just trying to speak to some Leavers and suggest that we should perhaps find more empathy - I was not seeking to generate more of the same attitudes from Remainers

Perhaps I should have said - for Leavers to read only - but what good would that have done?

I would also suggest that some Leavers - and indeed some Remainers will recognise some of the examples/descriptions from what they have seen on here:

Perhaps?:

"According to Corr and Stuart, this emotional response is “standard psychological stuff." To find solace and some level of security amid the disorder, Remainers are following a well-trodden path to polarized group think, dismissing their social "inferiors" who voted for Brexit as stupid, racist and easily misled."

Or

“On both sides of the debate, there is evidence of considerable ‘in-group’ love and ‘out-group’ hate," said Corr. "This is only to be expected given the social psychological dynamics of the debate."

and this one immediately put be in mind of someone that I will resist naming but I suspect will readily come to mind for a few of us:

"In the case of Brexit, instead of assuming that the Leave camp appraised the situation equally well as the Remain camp, and with equally honourable motives, he said, "the goal-conflict and cognitive dissonance has been resolved by assuming that the Leave camp are — typically speaking but always with exception — stupid, ill-informed and ill-intended. The underlying notion seems to be that they should have listened to ‘their betters’ — rather like naughty school children, if only they had ‘paid more attention in class.’”
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It offers a recognisable analysis because it is basically the same as your analysis. Its as balanced as an elephant on a unicycle. Indeed you could have written it.

Remainers obsessed by Empire? That made me chuckle. The conclusion;
'The Remainers were never a bunch of hopeless dreamers who didn’t stand a chance. They came tantalisingly close to success in the autumn of 2019. All they had to do was band themselves together into a government of national unity, and they would have been home and dry.'

Is that all they had to do? Damn it we missed a trick there. A tactical coalition between a Labour lead Corbyn and the Lib dems? Fuck sake. Where do you find this shite? Did you actually read it past the glib cliches of what Remainers think of Leavers?
Click to expand...

this from the same poster who constantly reminds everyone to stop going back to the 2016 vote and how we must move forward.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It offers a recognisable analysis because it is basically the same as your analysis. Its as balanced as an elephant on a unicycle. Indeed you could have written it.

Remainers obsessed by Empire? That made me chuckle. The conclusion;
'The Remainers were never a bunch of hopeless dreamers who didn’t stand a chance. They came tantalisingly close to success in the autumn of 2019. All they had to do was band themselves together into a government of national unity, and they would have been home and dry.'

Is that all they had to do? Damn it we missed a trick there. A tactical coalition between a Labour lead Corbyn and the Lib dems? Fuck sake. Where do you find this shite? Did you actually read it past the glib cliches of what Remainers think of Leavers?
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Read enough to realise that the author was treating Remainers as a homogenous group which is about as far from reality as it’s possible to be. No point reading the rest.
 
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BlueHammer85 said:
this from the same poster who constantly reminds everyone to stop going back to the 2016 vote and how we must move forward.
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Exactly. No one gives a fuck about a poorly constructed theoretical analysis of a disparate group of people who voted in a particular way 4 years ago. Most of us are more bothered about what shit we have in store after transition.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
this from the same poster who constantly reminds everyone to stop going back to the 2016 vote and how we must move forward.
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Hey - this is about analysis by, I assume, qualified professionals, of events since the referendum and up to date

It is indeed only Remainers that still cling to the 'unfairness' of the referendum.

But - I should have known better than to post in the spirit of causing some self-examination.

Afterall I was suggesting that it should be Leavers that might be moved perhaps to feel more empathy. I was not wishing to provoke responses from Remainers getting all indignant - and missing the irony of how they perhaps reinforce.............

I think that I will put that down to a well intended but misguided/futile effort from myself
 
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