The Conservative Party

[Rascal]

Ah yes back to the printing whatever money we want argument.

Yes, we can.

You are under the illusion created by the Tories that a Government has to balance the books. That is not true, it doesn't. This narrative is classical Chicago school economics. It us used to validate shrinking the state.

If the state creates money and uses it to buy up all the available labour and then uses that labour it creates the multiplier effect and the best way to get out of a deficit is not austerity it is growth.

This is why Sunak's furlough scheme has been a failure, it has bought a partial amount of Labour but because the Tories are ideologically opposed to the state he was only prepared to go so far because it if went further it would destroy the whole tory ideological base.

What Sunak's failure has done is raise the social costs to society, his inaction has increased peoples reliance on other services and he has basically passed the buck instead of doing it properly in the first place. He could have offered a Job Guarantee to everybody but again this is against Tory ideology because the Tories prefer there is unemployment as that depresses wages. Full employments raises wage due to scarcity of Labour. When Labour is scarce the power of the Unions increase and wages rise which then means profits are lower. Capitalists hate giving up any of their profit.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Ah yes back to the printing whatever money we want argument.

The Government bailed out the banks with £486 billion (didn't borrow) and called it Quantitive easing .... they've spent less than half of that on Covid19 and now its a problem?

 

[bluethrunthru]

The Government bailed out the banks with £486 billion (didn't borrow) and called it Quantitive easing .... they've spent less than half of that on Covid19 and now its a problem?

Because this time they spent it the proles not their mates who know how to keep and serve a decent claret.

 

[Ban-jani]

The Government bailed out the banks with £486 billion (didn't borrow) and called it Quantitive easing .... they've spent less than half of that on Covid19 and now its a problem?

A) that was Gordon Brown and thank fuck he did B) he did borrow it and C) it was a problem, although the austerity measures put into place as a result ruined our country.

 

[Ban-jani]

Yes, we can.

You are under the illusion created by the Tories that a Government has to balance the books. That is not true, it doesn't. This narrative is classical Chicago school economics. It us used to validate shrinking the state.

If the state creates money and uses it to buy up all the available labour and then uses that labour it creates the multiplier effect and the best way to get out of a deficit is not austerity it is growth.

This is why Sunak's furlough scheme has been a failure, it has bought a partial amount of Labour but because the Tories are ideologically opposed to the state he was only prepared to go so far because it if went further it would destroy the whole tory ideological base.

What Sunak's failure has done is raise the social costs to society, his inaction has increased peoples reliance on other services and he has basically passed the buck instead of doing it properly in the first place. He could have offered a Job Guarantee to everybody but again this is against Tory ideology because the Tories prefer there is unemployment as that depresses wages. Full employments raises wage due to scarcity of Labour. When Labour is scarce the power of the Unions increase and wages rise which then means profits are lower. Capitalists hate giving up any of their profit.

Russ, you make it incredibly hard to talk to you anymore, I barely got past the first paragraph without rolling my eyes.

I am not in favour of shrinking the state. I am in favour of nationalising utilities, rail, mail and buses. My Britain is further to the left than THIS Britain, economically.

Why aren’t you listening to me?

 

[Rascal]

Russ, you make it incredibly hard to talk to you anymore, I barely got past the first paragraph without rolling my eyes.

I am not in favour of shrinking the state. I am in favour of nationalising utilities, rail, mail and buses. My Britain is further to the left than THIS Britain, economically.

Why aren’t you listening to me?

Because you keep on parroting the nonsense that the Tories got away with under Osborne that reinforced the austerity narrative. It was fallacious, I said that at the time and I am saying it now. It was an ideological choice, it was not necessary so you being supportive of what you are is counter intuitive if you buy the household economy and printing money narrative.

We will not be passing debt on to our children and great grandchildren. If that was the case and there is a case for it, then your taxes have just paid for Nelson's fleet at Trafalgar, but that assumes there is zero growth in the economy and that has not been the case.

In the answer above you claim Gordon Brown borrowed money to pay for QE, no he didn't, the BoE created the money. It is new money not borrowed money.

Quantitative easing | Bank of England

It is fair enough that you are to the left of the Tories, i would hope any sane rational person was because they are fucking hopeless, they lie and mislead and are corrupt fuckers. I am suspicious of everything they do because they always play an angle that suits the capitalist class and not the working class. They see Government as an opportunity to further enrich the capitalist class.

 

[Ban-jani]

Because you keep on parroting the nonsense that the Tories got away with under Osborne that reinforced the austerity narrative. It was fallacious, I said that at the time and I am saying it now. It was an ideological choice, it was not necessary so you being supportive of what you are is counter intuitive if you buy the household economy and printing money narrative.

We will not be passing debt on to our children and great grandchildren. If that was the case and there is a case for it, then your taxes have just paid for Nelson's fleet at Trafalgar, but that assumes there is zero growth in the economy and that has not been the case.

In the answer above you claim Gordon Brown borrowed money to pay for QE, no he didn't, the BoE created the money. It is new money not borrowed money.

Quantitative easing | Bank of England

It is fair enough that you are to the left of the Tories, i would hope any sane rational person was because they are fucking hopeless, they lie and mislead and are corrupt fuckers. I am suspicious of everything they do because they always play an angle that suits the capitalist class and not the working class. They see Government as an opportunity to further enrich the capitalist class.

You keep making arguments for me to then argue against, but I’m not the one making them.

- Quantitive easing has happened for ages yes, I know.

- It’s an experiment that imo has a limit to how much of the tap we should turn on.

- Austerity was horrific and has changed the very fabric of society.

- I am not intelligent enough to know the answer to the 2008 crash, however I just know the measures put into place 2010-2020 were far too strong.

These are my only points.

 

[Rascal]

- It’s an experiment that imo has a limit to how much of the tap we should turn on.

There is no limit because the we have our own currency. Whether you are a politically in favour or not is irrelevant. The BoE can create as much money as it wants.

The only thing that changes is the value of the money. As money itself has no inherent value its value is measured in what that money can purchase. If the money created is used to feed back into the economy then growth ensues. QE in effect increases the money supply, which is counter to the old monetarist argument of narrowing the money supply to control inflation.

Here i have found these blog's, have a look they explain it far better than I can.

How Does Quantitative Easing Affect Currency Value (allfxbrokers.com)

Quantitative Easing Explained (thebalance.com)

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

There is no limit because the we have our own currency. Whether you are a politically in favour or not is irrelevant. The BoE can create as much money as it wants.

The only thing that changes is the value of the money. As money itself has no inherent value its value is measured in what that money can purchase. If the money created is used to feed back into the economy then growth ensues. QE in effect increases the money supply, which is counter to the old monetarist argument of narrowing the money supply to control inflation.

Here i have found these blog's, have a look they explain it far better than I can.

How Does Quantitative Easing Affect Currency Value (allfxbrokers.com)

Quantitative Easing Explained (thebalance.com)

Which is why the Bank of England are tasked with controlling inflation.

 

[Ban-jani]

There is no limit because the we have our own currency. Whether you are a politically in favour or not is irrelevant. The BoE can create as much money as it wants.

The only thing that changes is the value of the money. As money itself has no inherent value its value is measured in what that money can purchase. If the money created is used to feed back into the economy then growth ensues. QE in effect increases the money supply, which is counter to the old monetarist argument of narrowing the money supply to control inflation.

Here i have found these blog's, have a look they explain it far better than I can.

How Does Quantitative Easing Affect Currency Value (allfxbrokers.com)

Quantitative Easing Explained (thebalance.com)

I know the BoE can, I was careful in saying “imo” and “should”.

Appreciate the links though, I’ll read them when I’m home.

 

[bluethrunthru]

He must be going through such torture and miss the TA.

 

[urban genie]

He must be going through such torture and miss the TA.

Oh crumbs!


Vile lot ain't they

 

[Rascal]

Oh crumbs!


Vile lot ain't they

One rule for them, that is their belief and their expectation, their self entitlement and their self appointed privilige.

Despicable dishonest cunts.

 

[blueinsa]

Oh crumbs!


Vile lot ain't they

Has he been found guilty then?

Not by social media or some on this forum, I know the answer to that but are we all not presumes innocent until found guilty in this country and given the accusations involved, the rumours, the way mud sticks if he is found not guilty then is he not entitled to feel tormented by it all?

Of course if he is found guilty then throw the key away but until such a time he and any man for that matter deserves to be cut some slack imo.

 

[blueinsa]

One rule for them, that is their belief and their expectation, their self entitlement and their self appointed privilige.

Despicable dishonest cunts.

He hasn't even been charged, let alone found guilty by a court.

Fuck me it's 1917 Moscow in here ;-)

 

[urban genie]

Has he been found guilty then?

Not by social media or some on this forum, I know the answer to that but are we all not presumes innocent until found guilty in this country and given the accusations involved, the rumours, the way mud sticks if he is found not guilty then is he not entitled to feel tormented by it all?

Of course if he is found guilty then throw the key away but until such a time he and any man for that matter deserves to be cut some slack imo.

Who?


The MP is still unknown

 

[blueinsa]

Who?


The MP is still unknown

Also not guilty of any offense as of yet.

Tory and Brexiteer apart of course.

Just saying...

 

[urban genie]

He hasn't even been charged, let alone found guilty by a court.

Fuck me it's 1917 Moscow in here ;-)

Think you mean Petrograd if 1917, though cannot recall this same situation and if you did mean Moscow then more likely 1922

 

[blueinsa]

Think you mean Petrograd if 1917, though cannot recall this same situation and if you did mean Moscow then more likely 1922

There is always one you fucking Bolshevik ;-)

 

[Ban-jani]

He hasn't even been charged, let alone found guilty by a court.

Fuck me it's 1917 Moscow in here ;-)

Rascal wishes it was ;-)