Another new Brexit thread

[Rascal]

‘Ownership‘ of something you didn’t have a hand in is a curious notion, given it essentially means taking responsibility for your decisions, at least in this context.

The main reason I voted Remain

. My vote to leave, therefore, wasn’t rooted in indeology, so much as reality as I saw it.

Why the fuck would I want to ‘own’ that?

Which one are you not owning again?

:)

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

So Boris is dodging PMQs today so he can fly to Brussels to demonstrate our viable walk away option

He's been offered free food - it's a lunch meeting.

 

[hilts]

I'm sorry. Were you serious about voting Renain if only you'd known about 1912 and Churchill? I assumed you were joking.

So you’re saying joking is the same as celebrating? Haha give it up man. Sometimes a bit of light relief is needed in between.

It’s gonna be shit
It’s gonna be shit
Cheese
It’s gonna be shit
It’s gonna be shit
Folding bike
It’s gonna be shit
Nissan
It’s gonna be shit
Babies are remainers
It’s gonna be shit
Iceland
It gonna be shit

 

[r.soleofsalford]

So you’re saying joking is the same as celebrating? Haha give it up man. Sometimes a bit of light relief is needed in between.

It’s gonna be shit
It’s gonna be shit
Cheese
It’s gonna be shit
It’s gonna be shit
Folding bike
It’s gonna be shit
Nissan
It’s gonna be shit
Babies are remainers
It’s gonna be shit
Iceland
It gonna be shit

What a load of shit this post is.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What a load of shit this post is.

Yes, what a shit posting shit post.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I do find the stance of some posters on here really quite confusing re the topic of independence of Scotland from the UK.

I am not aware of any posters that support Brexit taking a stance that Scotland should not leave the UK. Myself and others have expressed a view that Scotland - should it come to a vote - will determine for themselves not to leave the UK - but it is their choice.

It is the Remainers on here that speak about it more - seeking the opportunity to use the issue in some way against Brexit - or to blame Brexit for increasing the likelihood - or something else (hard to understand the points trying to be made sometimes)

I do think the stance of those that bang on about the need for Scotland to leave the UK but oppose the outcome of a democratic vote for the UK to Leave the EU to be - at best - conflicted.

FWIW - for me if there is a genuine Brexit and 5 years before a vote on Scotland leaving the UK there will be a very clear remain vote

unless it is a UK wide vote;-)

keep on believing that mate if it provides comfort.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Michael Gove should be resigning today.... as he swore he would do if the government backed down on the Internal Markets Bill.

 

[Vic]

You say potato...............

Or.... to help - as you seem to be making an unnecessary point

A fount of knowledge is a term used to describe something, but usually someone, who contains all the answers, something or someone that has a large aggregate of information.

Font of knowledge and font of wisdom are mondegreens, which are phrases rendered by misinterpreting the proper terms.

mondegreens (plural noun)

1. a misunderstood or misinterpreted word or phrase resulting from a mishearing of the lyrics of a song.
   
   Fount of knowledge or wisdom vs font of knowledge or wisdom – Grammarist

Always use more than one source.

"The standard accepted form is fount of knowledge, and this was also the term chosen by the majority of voters in our poll (67%) despite the Oxford English Corpus suggesting that font of knowledge is now the more common form."

But the Grammarist reckons it's a mondegreen? By its own definition that's nonsense.

Font/fount. Either.
(Pronounced I - ther.)

 

[carlosthejackal]

It always seems strange when I hear people who will I assume all be living in the same country post brexit telling each other that they 'own' brexit. Unless Boris comes back with a two tier deal which is better for remain voters or arranges for them to get some sort of discount card for shopping everyone resident in the UK will own brexit.

I won’t own it , yes I’ll have to live with it but I certainly don’t own it . It’s owned by the liars who convinced the public that it was going to be the easiest deal in history, as the British public are finding out it’s impossible to deliver lies . Exceptionalism and jingoism only takes a nation so far . It was always going to be a shit show and it has certainly lived up to that .

 

[Saddleworth2]

You’ve little to complain about.

When you consider the Home Rule Bill passed in 1912 took until 1922 to actually get an Irish parliament.

Admittedly the arming of the unionists by Carson refusing the democratic will of the country, The Curragh incident where British army captains refused to take action against Ulster Loyalists, the consequential arming of the nationalist choosing to protect themselves, the gun running by both sides but particularly a blind eye being turned by the Westminster parliament to an Ulster armed militia, the 1916 Rising, the 1st world war, the 1918 elections where Sinn Fein won 73 of the 105 seats across all the 32 counties of the country, the declaration of an Irish parliament in Dublin as a result a guerrilla war fought with Britain resulting in the state (Britain) executing civilians (subjects) and their militia auxiliaries (black and tans) ransacking and burning whole towns and most of the City of Cork down,
A truce and treaty being reached between both sides of this war of independence (Scots friends take note, war not referendum)
Britain choosing to partition the country forming an unnatural border along loyalist demographics rather than either grant home rule or recognise the majority of the 1918 election thereby placating Carson and his armed militia.

But we got there. Well we got 26 counties there. Independence.

Oh and then there was the civil war because Churchill threatened Collins that he would put British troops back into the Irish Free State if he didn’t deal with the border county conflicts and atrocities that were happening to both communities by armed militias.
The pro and con treatyites were mainly due to The Irish Free State being a Dominion of the UK and having to pledge an oath of allegiance to the King yet unionists in Ulster got to opt out of a pledge to the Dail in Dublin and drew up partition of the country instead.

Then everything was absolutely rosey as we all know up to the drawing up very carefully of the GFA. Nothing much to report of any consequence in that interim period.

But no your right. People moaning in Britain about a referendum to opt out of a Union is just the pits.

Democracy? What do they or the EU know about it?

What are they like honestly?

Bloody and ugly wasn't it. Some pretty horrible history.
Important to reflect on all aspects of our past, both those that we can rightly be proud of as well as stuff that shames us.

I would like to believe that re-unification of Ireland and independence for Scotland would be 100% peaceful.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I won’t own it , yes I’ll have to live with it but I certainly don’t own it . It’s owned by the liars who convinced the public that it was going to be the easiest deal in history, as the British public are finding out it’s impossible to deliver lies . Exceptionalism and jingoism only takes a nation so far . It was always going to be a shit show and it has certainly lived up to that .

Yes, but your lived experience will be that of a brexit owner unless you plan to emigrate. I didn't vote for our current govt/PM, but my lived experience as a current UK resident is exactly the same as those who did. I also think you underestimate how many of us brexit voters plan to lie about our voting choice if it goes tits up, or indeed emigrate.

 

[mcfc1632]

Well we’ll never achieve absoluteness in sovereignty, as international law, customs agreements, NATO etc. dictate that we cannot, however it’s disingenuous to state that being sovereign is totally black and white.

I always felt we had enough sovereignty with our opt outs in the EU and I feel that way now.

One example of a type of sovereignty we now have is here:

Be careful - there be dragons - I did warn another poster:

Be careful - we had this a few weeks ago

It seems that people can hide posting nonsense behind pedantry

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Which one are you not owning again?

:)

Haha! I'm the Mavis Riley of this thread!

 

[hilts]

Yes, but your lived experience will be that of a brexit owner unless you plan to emigrate. I didn't vote for our current govt/PM, but my lived experience as a current UK resident is exactly the same as those who did. I also think you underestimate how many of us brexit voters plan to lie about our voting choice if it goes tits up, or indeed emigrate.

I’ve already worked out my oven ready exit strategy

 

[BobKowalski]

The one thing Brexit does deliver is the comedy of people like Gove twisting themselves into knots over the bleeding obvious, like when an office isn’t really an office...

 

[mcfc1632]

keep on believing that mate if it provides comfort.

I certainly do not need to seek any comfort on this topic - I am in the position of being absolutely indifferent to the outcome of a future Indyref

I do not have any of the hypocrisy that I feel being against a further Indeyref would reflect. Indeed my view would be that following conclusion of a genuine Brexit there should quickly be an agreed date for Indyref2 to be held - Let's say 5 years later.

The problem for the supporters of a Yes vote as I see it is that - from a totally indifferent and objective assessment of the subject - I would expect the Yes vote to be nearer 40 than 45%.

I have no axe to grind - it just is what it is. From my substantial experience of Scottish people and their attitudes - they are a canny people I think that it would be a straightforward and very clear No outcome

But anyway - so long as the vote follows a clean/genuine Brexit I hope you get an outcome that makes you at least content that the question was put to the people - and their will was observed

FWIW - this Post scratches the surface of some of reasons for my firm view

Oh - I agree and as I mentioned earlier - I would expect the 'feelings' to continue to drive the polls upwards for Yes - but 2 factors indicate that there is very little chance of a Yes outcome:

1/ When the implications of Leaving (and remember - I am indifferent so have no axe to grind) - are laid out the impact will quickly wash away any level of wavering.

Simply take any of the arguments Remainers put forwards here and then apply them to Scotland Leaving the UK, e.g.

• primary export market
• secondary export markets dependency on servicing through English infrastructure
• the border issues
• Integration - the extent of integration of the UK into the EU is superficial when compared to Scotland with the UK. Scotland has massive dependencies on the use of UK systems for even basic services - I know, I have been providing support to SG on the Social Security Programme and recently I have been asked to help with the transition from CAP to - whatever will follow etc. etc. etc.
  There are many more issues of far greater impact proportionately than the UK leaving the EU. And of course then there would be negotiation of the withdrawal agreement which would be very interesting - the UK will have learned a few handling lessons in recent years
  
  2/ The current/future level of support for independence is wholly insufficient and not credibly going to increase to anywhere need that required to counter the deluge of issues like those listed.
  
  I see it as an unhappy outcome for a lot of Scottish citizens - they will have a desire to be independent, but will vote to stay in the UK - Leaving a 'bad taste' and a deal of resentment - but that is what will happen

 

[BobKowalski]

UK to drop US tariffs...the wrinkle to this is legally we may have had to do it anyway as the tariffs were WTO approved as EU tariffs. US can keep its tariffs as they were brought against specific countries, including the UK.

UK government has broken ranks with the EU by disclosing plans to suspend punitive tariffs against the US over aircraft subsidies, in an attempt to pave the way for a post-Brexit trade deal with Washington. @FT

 

[Saddleworth2]

I certainly do not need to seek any comfort on this topic - I am in the position of being absolutely indifferent to the outcome of a future Indyref

I do not have any of the hypocrisy that I feel being against a further Indeyref would reflect. Indeed my view would be that following conclusion of a genuine Brexit there should quickly be an agreed date for Indyref2 to be held - Let's say 5 years later.

The problem for the supporters of a Yes vote as I see it is that - from a totally indifferent and objective assessment of the subject - I would expect the Yes vote to be nearer 40 than 45%.

I have no axe to grind - it just is what it is. From my substantial experience of Scottish people and their attitudes - they are a canny people I think that it would be a straightforward and very clear No outcome

But anyway - so long as the vote follows a clean/genuine Brexit I hope you get an outcome that makes you at least content that the question was put to the people - and their will was observed

FWIW - this Post scratches the surface of some of reasons for my firm view

I know your view. The post you appended was in response to me :-)

 

[mcfc1632]

Yes, but your lived experience will be that of a brexit owner unless you plan to emigrate. I didn't vote for our current govt/PM, but my lived experience as a current UK resident is exactly the same as those who did. I also think you underestimate how many of us brexit voters plan to lie about our voting choice if it goes tits up, or indeed emigrate.

Very good post

Re the first part - it just is what it is - as you say the 'lived' experience will be that of a resident of a country that 'Brexited' - no differences between people based on how they voted

FWIW - hindsight being 20/20 and all that - I would expect that the angst of Remainers should start to change focus to Grieve, Soubry and the rest that acted to stop essentially a BRINO outcome due to their need to 'have a cake and eat it' outcome

Re your 2nd point - next week I will be offered residency in an EU country - perhaps I will take it as it gives me the opportunity keep my council and if necessary claim I voted Remain - I was afterall at York away

 

[mcfc1632]

Always use more than one source.

"The standard accepted form is fount of knowledge, and this was also the term chosen by the majority of voters in our poll (67%) despite the Oxford English Corpus suggesting that font of knowledge is now the more common form."

But the Grammarist reckons it's a mondegreen? By its own definition that's nonsense.

Font/fount. Either.
(Pronounced I - ther.)

Go argue it with the Grammarist - I obviously failed to get across how little I care when people in their pettiness try to trip others up on issues of grammar, spelling etc.

This is a football forum

Actually I get amused - it suggests that they cannot debate the substantive points