Another new Brexit thread

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mancity2012_eamo said:
I honestly don’t know but will pay closer attention now to what NI protocol has been agreed.
One thing for sure, if Sammy Wilson isn’t happy with it then the EU and Ireland have more say than his UK sensibilities are comfortable with.

This will be an issue over the coming years that won’t disappear.
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I think it’s because May promised that NI would have exactly the same agreement and terms with the EU as the rest of the UK.

Because this distinguishes them as different to the island of Great Britain, the unionists in NI are unhappy.

Not to be arrogant but half way through last year I said that is the arrangement Johnson would go for as it’s the only one that can be done, whilst preserving the GFA.

NI will leave the EU CU in its entirety once the tech is available, and once they vote. They think the tech is about 3/4 years away.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Yes, but your lived experience will be that of a brexit owner unless you plan to emigrate. I didn't vote for our current govt/PM, but my lived experience as a current UK resident is exactly the same as those who did. I also think you underestimate how many of us brexit voters plan to lie about our voting choice if it goes tits up, or indeed emigrate.
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Does it matter that people will not accept it or own it? Every bump in the road will be used against Brexit. Every increased cost, hold ups, delays, difficulties, will be laid at Brexit’s door. There will be constant reminders that ‘x’ was promised in the referendum and we got ‘y’ instead. Every business relocation will be ascribed to Brexit. The SNP will use it is a permanent wedge issue, the Welsh are starting too and NI will develop closer supply chains and links through the Republic, making our own Union more tenuous.

There will also be the constant counter view, all problems will be the fault of the EU for not giving us what we wanted, the trade border in the Irish Sea, EU officials at UK ports, a constant reminder that we haven’t escaped the EU. Then there will be the constant negotiations with the EU over a thousand and one things that need addressing, or adjusting, it will be a constant picking of the scab.

So, no, a lot of people will never accept it, let alone own it and conversely a lot of people will fret that we haven’t escaped the shackles of the EU and that there are still too many immigrants. A lot of people on either side of the debate will not be ‘owning it’.

A UK that has now become confrontational to Europe and a UK that is excluded from the decision making and shaping of Europe is never going to be a happy place. As ever, we will be a country in search of a role. Too big to be a minor player, too small to be a major one and too proud or too dumb to realise it.
 
BobKowalski said:
Does it matter that people will not accept it or own it? Every bump in the road will be used against Brexit. Every increased cost, hold ups, delays, difficulties, will be laid at Brexit’s door. There will be constant reminders that ‘x’ was promised in the referendum and we got ‘y’ instead. Every business relocation will be ascribed to Brexit. The SNP will use it is a permanent wedge issue, the Welsh are starting too and NI will develop closer supply chains and links through the Republic, making our own Union more tenuous.

There will also be the constant counter view, all problems will be the fault of the EU for not giving us what we wanted, the trade border in the Irish Sea, EU officials at UK ports, a constant reminder that we haven’t escaped the EU. Then there will be the constant negotiations with the EU over a thousand and one things that need addressing, or adjusting, it will be a constant picking of the scab.

So, no, a lot of people will never accept it, let alone own it and conversely a lot of people will fret that we haven’t escaped the shackles of the EU and that there are still too many immigrants. A lot of people on either side of the debate will not be ‘owning it’.

A UK that has now become confrontational to Europe and a UK that is excluded from the decision making and shaping of Europe is never going to be a happy place. As ever, we will be a country in search of a role. Too big to be a minor player, too small to be a major one and too proud or too dumb to realise it.
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My own plan is to start saying I voted remain and blame anything bad on Covid. Once we get a covid vaccine we should be able to get back to climate change/BLM and all that stuff.
 
stonerblue said:
Because after reading page after page of the lies they fell for coming home to roost they need a bit of deflection.
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www.thenewfederalist.eu

Is a Federal Europe Possible? – The New Federalist

First of all, thank you very much for the invitation to participate in this International Seminar in Ventotene, the prison-island where Spinelli, Rossi and Colorni wrote their famous Manifesto. I…
www.thenewfederalist.eu www.thenewfederalist.eu

www.federalists.eu

A Federal Europe: the way out of the cris

The Spinelli Group - This report suggests a way to break the deadlock over the MFF. We recommend restructuring the EU budget into federal and confederal parts. Eurobonds could then be launched without changing the treaty or breaking the balanced budget rule, and at no extra cost to national...
www.federalists.eu www.federalists.eu

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www.thenewfederalist.eu

Claudia Gamon: “A federal Europe is within reach. In fact, we have never been closer.” – The New Federalist

Ahead of the 2019 European elections, The New Federalist is interviewing different candidates from different Member States. Today's contribution is about Claudia Gamon, national Spitzenkandidat of…
www.thenewfederalist.eu www.thenewfederalist.eu

federal Europe Archives - Euractiv

www.euractiv.com www.euractiv.com

Should keep you occupied until your next ignorant statement.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Nice to see another Brexiteer has decided to move production to the EU after promising to invest in British industry.







"Strategically located to provide better access to target markets." Or in layman's terms, "it's in the EU."

Story

A man who is such a proud Brit that he moved to Monaco to avoid paying any tax.
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What a fucking wanker.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I am not aware of any posters that support Brexit taking a stance that Scotland should not leave the UK. Myself and others have expressed a view that Scotland - should it come to a vote - will determine for themselves not to leave the UK - but it is their choice.

It is the Remainers on here that speak about it more - seeking the opportunity to use the issue in some way against Brexit - or to blame Brexit for increasing the likelihood - or something else (hard to understand the points trying to be made sometimes)

I do think the stance of those that bang on about the need for Scotland to leave the UK but oppose the outcome of a democratic vote for the UK to Leave the EU to be - at best - conflicted.

FWIW - for me if there is a genuine Brexit and 5 years before a vote on Scotland leaving the UK there will be a very clear remain vote

unless it is a UK wide vote;-)
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True.
Brexiteers should get the logic of the SCexiteers whether they agree about the conclusions the electorate will come to or not.
And all should understand the nuances that influence a vote.

Still think you leaving the EU is a damn site easier than leaving the UK.
 
BobKowalski said:
Does it matter that people will not accept it or own it? Every bump in the road will be used against Brexit. Every increased cost, hold ups, delays, difficulties, will be laid at Brexit’s door. There will be constant reminders that ‘x’ was promised in the referendum and we got ‘y’ instead. Every business relocation will be ascribed to Brexit. The SNP will use it is a permanent wedge issue, the Welsh are starting too and NI will develop closer supply chains and links through the Republic, making our own Union more tenuous.

There will also be the constant counter view, all problems will be the fault of the EU for not giving us what we wanted, the trade border in the Irish Sea, EU officials at UK ports, a constant reminder that we haven’t escaped the EU. Then there will be the constant negotiations with the EU over a thousand and one things that need addressing, or adjusting, it will be a constant picking of the scab.

So, no, a lot of people will never accept it, let alone own it and conversely a lot of people will fret that we haven’t escaped the shackles of the EU and that there are still too many immigrants. A lot of people on either side of the debate will not be ‘owning it’.

A UK that has now become confrontational to Europe and a UK that is excluded from the decision making and shaping of Europe is never going to be a happy place. As ever, we will be a country in search of a role. Too big to be a minor player, too small to be a major one and too proud or too dumb to realise it.
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IMG_4308.jpg
 
Merkel said the main stumbling block in the negotiations in Brussels was the EU’s request for an “evolution clause”, or “ratchet clause” as Downing Street has described it. Such a clause would establish a mechanism to ensure that as one side raises their environmental, labour and social standards, the other is not able to sit tight and enjoy a competitive advantage.

From the Guardian. TBF if you are for a clean break I can see how this would stick in the craw. I would be interested to know if the EU has this type of agreement as part of other major trade deals or if its specifically for the UK because of our proximity and potential for competition.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Merkel said the main stumbling block in the negotiations in Brussels was the EU’s request for an “evolution clause”, or “ratchet clause” as Downing Street has described it. Such a clause would establish a mechanism to ensure that as one side raises their environmental, labour and social standards, the other is not able to sit tight and enjoy a competitive advantage.

From the Guardian. TBF if you are for a clean break I can see how this would stick in the craw. I would be interested to know if the EU has this type of agreement as part of other major trade deals or if its specifically for the UK because of our proximity and potential for competition.
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There are LPF provisions in all trade deals, but the EU is looking at a more stringent one for the UK because of proximity and size, plus making sure there is adequate legal recourse if the UK breaches the LPF provision. The UK is free to say no, and the EU is free to deny market access accordingly.

The strange thing is that the provision works both ways, ie, it protects the UK, which in State Aid is helpful to us as traditionally EU countries chuck more state aid at companies than we do. But the issue is more a symbolic and emotional one than practical for the UK.

EU countries will not agree a deal without a stringent LPF provision. No way will they accept ‘social dumping’ from a non-EU country that has tariff free access to the EU Single Market. Just ain’t happening. Even if we are unlikely to do it, or say we won’t do it, they want it written in stone and signed in blood.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Very good post

Re the first part - it just is what it is - as you say the 'lived' experience will be that of a resident of a country that 'Brexited' - no differences between people based on how they voted

FWIW - hindsight being 20/20 and all that - I would expect that the angst of Remainers should start to change focus to Grieve, Soubry and the rest that acted to stop essentially a BRINO outcome due to their need to 'have a cake and eat it' outcome

Re your 2nd point - next week I will be offered residency in an EU country - perhaps I will take it as it gives me the opportunity keep my council and if necessary claim I voted Remain - I was afterall at York away
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Still waiting for when a BRINO deal was ever available. Sheer bunkum / aka gaslighting / aka "disingenuous" / aka a lie.

And you're deluded if you don't think Bluemoon will remember how you voted, for ever. You will always share the blame (I will not be here in 50 years to see the benefit).
 
mcfc1632 said:
Go argue it with the Grammarist - I obviously failed to get across how little I care when people in their pettiness try to trip others up on issues of grammar, spelling etc.

This is a football forum

Actually I get amused - it suggests that they cannot debate the substantive points
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You cared enough to google to prove your use was OK.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Merkel said the main stumbling block in the negotiations in Brussels was the EU’s request for an “evolution clause”, or “ratchet clause” as Downing Street has described it. Such a clause would establish a mechanism to ensure that as one side raises their environmental, labour and social standards, the other is not able to sit tight and enjoy a competitive advantage.

From the Guardian. TBF if you are for a clean break I can see how this would stick in the craw. I would be interested to know if the EU has this type of agreement as part of other major trade deals or if its specifically for the UK because of our proximity and potential for competition.
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The clause would be mutual presumably. If we're against it, that must mean we expect to be the ones not raising standards
 
In other EU news, internal compromise is in the offing...

‘Polish Deputy PM says Poland and Hungary agreed on a compromise with Germany to unblock the EU’s $2.2 trillion budget and stimulus plan’ @bloomberg
 
Liar Johnson still blustering at PMQ about not capitulating. Good job he's a liar.
 
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