Another new Brexit thread

[Ban-jani]

It’s pretty obvious that both won because the electorate found them to be more electable than the opposition candidates.
Whether that’s a healthy place to be I am not so sure.
To be honest corbyn was a disaster and Hilary Clinton just isn’t as well liked as people presumed.

I don’t want to diverge too far from Brexit but people hated Clinton so much in America, some went for Trump even though they didn’t like him too.

I think it was more complex than our GE last December.

Labour’s working class heartlands wanted Brexit, Labour weren’t going to deliver it, throw in Corbyn not being liked and it’s that simple.

 

[bluethrunthru]

who's gonna buy our scallops?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Depends on whether those States have negotiated reciprocity agreements on the trade barriers that hinder movement between States.

Also, you have to enjoy the confidence in delivering the statement - open borders ‘it’s not delivered anywhere on Earth’ from a citizen of a Union state that did just that.

Carry on with your fantasies mate, being a champion of open borders puts you
amongst an unlovely bunch of universally derided fruit loops. The UK and US are recognised sovereign countries, which of course you know, and you also know, unless you're completely gaga, that such a policy, not adopted anywhere, would create total and absolute chaos.

 

[Saddleworth2]

O'Brien posed the question yesterday:

Is this the only time in history that a trade negotiation between two parties has been designed to make trading conditions worse then they previously had been.

 

[mcfc1632]

O'Brien posed the question yesterday:

Is this the only time in history that a trade negotiation between two parties has been designed to make trading conditions worse then they previously had been.

Totally and typically smartarse comment from that knob - will please his followers but is a pretty stupid observation/question

The UK has/is leaving the EU - where it enjoyed all the trading benefits of the SM and CU - so of course the replacement arrangements are/were always going to be less that previously.

Reducing trading terms (which is all Remainers seem to talk about) is a small price to pay for the benefit is getting out of the EU

 

[Ancient Citizen]

O'Brien posed the question yesterday:

Is this the only time in history that a trade negotiation between two parties has been designed to make trading conditions worse then they previously had been.

O'Brien is getting more and more desperate, now that his predictions look like
they're turning to shit. That statement ignores the fact that the UK, if the current negotiations succeed, will have left the SM, CU and ECJ, which is what Brexit was all about. It also means the UK can strike deals anywhere they like, not via the EU, which is happening. If, and as yet it is still if, this is coupled with a FTA with the EU, then Brexit has been delivered successfully.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Off the top of my head, TUPE 1981 (not strictly an Act tbf) Employment Rights Act 1996, The DDA 1995, PACE 1984, the Housing Act 1980 (doubled-edged sword tbf).

HASAW Act 1974 was started by the Tories In early 1974 and passed by Labour later that year, after the GE.

And how about the 1972 European Communities Act? That was Heath.

Good point.

You could also add the Clean Air Act 1956, the Factories Act 1961 and the Occupiers Liability Act 1984.

Marriage of same sex couples act

What have the Tories ever done for us?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Totally and typically smartarse comment from that knob - will please his followers but is a pretty stupid observation/question

The UK has/is leaving the EU - where it enjoyed all the trading benefits of the SM and CU - so of course the replacement arrangements are/were always going to be less that previously.

Reducing trading terms (which is all Remainers seem to talk about) is a small price to pay for the benefit is getting out of the EU

Why is it 'pretty stupid' is it not true?
If its true then by definition, its hardly stupid.

Funny how all leavers now freely admit to voting for trade arrangements that are significantly inferior to those they previously enjoyed.

 

[mcfc1632]

Lol ... Deluded..... all the TORIES have ever done is to attempt to / or removed the rights of the working class.

Please let me have an act passed by the Conservatives that has benefited the average man since 1956.

I'll wait.

Are you still waiting?

Thought that you might have been on to thank a few posters for their contributions

 

[mcfc1632]

Why is it 'pretty stupid' is it not true?
If its true then by definition, its hardly stupid.

Funny how all leavers now freely admit to voting for trade arrangements that are significantly inferior to those they previously enjoyed.

I think that it is obvious why it is a stupid comment - and smartarse and entirely disingenuous

Equally stupid suggestions would be:

That a non-EU member could secure better arrangements than members?

or

That a non-EU member could secure arrangements at least as good as members?

Given that they are utterly stupid suggestions - it follows that any arrangements non-members have will be less than they enjoyed whilst members

Are you really that easily impressed ?

And as for:

"Funny how all leavers now freely admit to voting for trade arrangements that are significantly inferior to those they previously enjoyed."

As you replying to me - you must be aiming that comment at me and suggesting that I was claiming that they would be at least of good or better - why would you suggest that? - because it certainly is not true of me.

Talking about trading agreements is all Remainers have in their locker - it seems to be their safe place to go and hide

 

[Saddleworth2]

What have the Tories ever done for us?

Austerity
Brexit in all its glory
Bombed Libya
Cash for questions
Unlawfully prorogued Parliament
Chris Grayling
Spent billions of taxpayers money on awarding contracts to their unqualified mates
Windrush
Widened the gap between rich and poor
Increased child poverty
Presided over the deterioration of the nations health
Made Marcus Rashford a saint
The bedroom tax
Cut benefits for the disabled
scrapped housing benefit for 18 - 21 year olds
Increased tuition fees
reduced mental health bed numbers
given us the worst PM in living memory

A list to be proud of

 

[Saddleworth2]

Reducing trading terms (which is all Remainers seem to talk about) is a small price to pay for the benefit is getting out of the EU

"Funny how all leavers now freely admit to voting for trade arrangements that are significantly inferior to those they previously enjoyed."

As you replying to me - you must be aiming that comment at me and suggesting that I was claiming that they would be at least of good or better - why would you suggest that? - because it certainly is not true of me.

No mate, just mirroring your constant generalisation of what 'remainers' say or do. That you take immediate umbrage is pretty funny.

That a non-EU member could secure arrangements at least as good as members?

Well maybe my memory is defective but I seem to remember some pretty bullish claims from Gove/Fox/Davis/Johnson.

 

[west didsblue]

I think that it is obvious why it is a stupid comment - and smartarse and entirely disingenuous

Equally stupid would be:

That a non-EU member could secure better arrangements than members?

or

That a non-EU member could secure arrangements at least as good as members?

Given that they are utterly stupid suggestions - it follows that any arrangements non-members have will be less than they enjoyed whilst members

Are you really that easily impressed ?

And as for:

"Funny how all leavers now freely admit to voting for trade arrangements that are significantly inferior to those they previously enjoyed."

As you replying to me - you must be aiming that comment at me and suggesting that I was claiming that they would be at least of good or better - why would you suggest that? - because it certainly is not true of me.

Talking about trading agreements is all Remainers have in their locker - it seems to be their safe place to go and hide

It’s not just trade.

Brexit is limiting the freedom of UK citizens to choose where they they spend their time.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...p-from-their-grasp-thanks-to-brexit-wbjs5bs5l

Following transition Brexit will limit the choice of what UK citizens will be able to buy in the shops due to the fact that quite a few producers in the EU have already said that it will no longer be profitable exporting certain products to the UK so they won’t bother.

Brexit will also increase the prices of things that are available even with an FTA, due to the increased costs of transacting business.

Brexit has already sharply reduced the amount of inward investment into the UK.

Brexit has instigated the movement of over a trillion pounds in assets from the UK to other places in Europe.

And back to trade. There is not a single new FTA that improves our trading position with any country. The best we’ve got is a rolling over of existing terms but with larger trading partners like Japan the terms are demonstrably worse (excluding £100k of Stilton).

 

[stonerblue]

Why? We have an ageing population and clearly rely on immigration and will need even more in future. Sometimes it appears there is a desire to connect brexit and immigration in order to frame brexit as anti-immigration and therefore racist. Attempting to hijack the immigration debate in this way is in itself a demonisation/weaponisation of the issue and therefore cynical if not actually racist.
Keep brexit about the EU and stop using vulnerable people to prop up a failed argument for remain (please).

soz mate but that is nonsense of the highest order.

 

[BobKowalski]

Carry on with your fantasies mate, being a champion of open borders puts you
amongst an unlovely bunch of universally derided fruit loops. The UK and US are recognised sovereign countries, which of course you know, and you also know, unless you're completely gaga, that such a policy, not adopted anywhere, would create total and absolute chaos.

‘The Schengen Area operates very much like a single state for international travel purposes with external border controls for travellers entering and exiting the area, and common visas, but with no internal border controls. It currently consists of 26 European countries covering a population of over 400 million people...’

 

[stonerblue]

Austerity
Brexit in all its glory
Bombed Libya
Cash for questions
Unlawfully prorogued Parliament
Chris Grayling
Spent billions of taxpayers money on awarding contracts to their unqualified mates
Windrush
Widened the gap between rich and poor
Increased child poverty
Presided over the deterioration of the nations health
Made Marcus Rashford a saint
The bedroom tax
Cut benefits for the disabled
scrapped housing benefit for 18 - 21 year olds
Increased tuition fees
reduced mental health bed numbers
given us the worst PM in living memory

A list to be proud of

hostile enviroment
scrapped ema
sold bombs to terrorists.

 

[Saddleworth2]

hostile enviroment
scrapped ema
sold bombs to terrorists.

TBF, the list is endless.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

soz mate but that is nonsense of the highest order.

Be anti-immigration if you must, but if you are please don't call me 'mate' thank you.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Why? We have an ageing population and clearly rely on immigration and will need even more in future. Sometimes it appears there is a desire to connect brexit and immigration in order to frame brexit as anti-immigration and therefore racist. Attempting to hijack the immigration debate in this way is in itself a demonisation/weaponisation of the issue and therefore cynical if not actually racist.
Keep brexit about the EU and stop using vulnerable people to prop up a failed argument for remain (please).

This is the original proposition from Leave. You will see that control of immigration was at the heart of the proposition

A summary

• We end the supremacy of EU law and the European Court. We will be able to kick out those who make our laws.
• Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals.
• We spend our money on our priorities. Instead of sending £350 million per week to Brussels, we will spend it on our priorities like the NHS and schools.
• We take back control of migration policy, including the 1951 UN Convention on refugees, so we have a fairer and more humane policy, and we decide who comes into our country, on what terms, and who is removed.
• We will regain our seat on international bodies where Brussels represents us, and use our greater international influence to push for greater international cooperation.
• We will build a new European institutional architecture that enables all countries, whether in or out of the EU or euro, to trade freely and cooperate in a friendly way.
• We will negotiate a new UK-EU Treaty and end the legal supremacy of EU law and the European Court before the 2020 election.
• We do not necessarily have to use Article 50 - we may agree with the EU another path that is in both our interests.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

This is the original proposition from Leave. You will see that control of immigration was at the heart of the proposition

A summary

• We end the supremacy of EU law and the European Court. We will be able to kick out those who make our laws.
• Europe yes, EU no. We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals.
• We spend our money on our priorities. Instead of sending £350 million per week to Brussels, we will spend it on our priorities like the NHS and schools.
• We take back control of migration policy, including the 1951 UN Convention on refugees, so we have a fairer and more humane policy, and we decide who comes into our country, on what terms, and who is removed.
• We will regain our seat on international bodies where Brussels represents us, and use our greater international influence to push for greater international cooperation.
• We will build a new European institutional architecture that enables all countries, whether in or out of the EU or euro, to trade freely and cooperate in a friendly way.
• We will negotiate a new UK-EU Treaty and end the legal supremacy of EU law and the European Court before the 2020 election.
• We do not necessarily have to use Article 50 - we may agree with the EU another path that is in both our interests.

I take it you are suggesting controlling immigration is the same as anti-immigration?It isn't - just the same as controlling your spending doesn't mean not spending.