“The work of God”?

There weren't any.

The nearest I ever got to encountering nuns was in the pages of Viz Comic.

61sJfL61yBL._AC_SX522_.jpg

Ah well as a catholic, we had nuns teach RE and they certainly believed it all.

It made the lesson fun as you could actually discuss the subject and argue the ridiculousness of some aspects as some were properly resolute that the bible was word for word true.

Saying that, the first miricle we were taught in primary school was the wedding at Cana and jesus turning water into wine, which looking back is probably a nice one to hook us.


Personally I played guitar in the monstary every sunday mass, had my confirmation to reafirm my baptism, as without baptism you are not reborn at any age as a christian as per the gospel of John etc, even toyed with becoming a priest at around 16 years old (but you couldn't till your 25)

I dilecided it is unlikely a god of creation exists at about 17/18 and also now as a young adult disagreed a lot with the catholic church doctorine on many things in life, and fucked if I was being a prodestant, catholicism is like the yakuza or mafia after all, once your in, your in for life.

Now at 44 there is nothing I have seen, read or experienced that can convince me it is nothing than just an evolutionary need to have something unknown to believe in to help us survive, even though that thing doesn't exist.


Still I don't blaspheme in front of peole who believe it and still cross my forehead with holy water and genuflect and do the sign of the cross when visiting a church.
 
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I don’t really know how to answer this without prompting people to think it’s a ridiculous reason.

Im not bothered about ridicule, I just want to do it justice, what happened.

I’ll just leave you with a basic description...

I had the most vivid dream of my life and saw ‘Him’.

Believe me when I say I thought about whether or not is was just a dream for many weeks, I mean really thought about it. There’s several reasons why I eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn’t just a dream.

Following that I read Matthew, Luke and John, by the time I’d finished John I was convinced it was true.

It wasn’t an easy process, I was a C.Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc. fan before and God is Not Great was a book I really enjoyed.

Anyone that’s completely changed their mind either way will know how difficult a process it is, if you’re being honest with yourself, it takes months.
Thanks for your honesty and courage.

I have never had any kind of experience that I would remotely describe as 'religious' but am not dismissive of reports of what are known as mystical experiences.

John's gospel is regarded as the most mystical of the gospels ('I am in the Father and the Father is in me and I am in you' - that sort of thing).

However, if the universe has its own intelligence I doubt very much that it is personal. The problem of evil does it for me too: there's simply too much pointless suffering in the world, and every last drop of it has to have significance if you are a theist, whereas in Buddhism it's just part of the territory and the starting point for the investigation of reality through meditation (not that I am a Buddhist, though).

There's actually a remarkable film about conversion that I only saw last week: Leon Morin, Priest.

It's set during the period of the occupation in wartime France. The main character is a widow, an atheist and communist sympathiser who slips into the local Catholic church intending to take the piss out of one of the resident priests and gets more than she bargained for.

The director is Jean Pierre-Melville, a right-leaning Jewish atheist who is more renowned for his unconventional, existential gangster/heist movies. Melville was a big influence on directors like Tarantino.

Anyway, it's well-worth checking out. It's the only film I have ever watched that makes Theology interesting (I hated teaching most aspects of it). Plus, for a 1961 film there's some content that wouldn't be out of place in Viz Comic.
 
Saying that, the first miricle we were taught in primary school was the wedding at Cana and jesus turning water into wine, which looking back is probably a nice one to hook us.
If you think about it, it's utterly banal as an example of a miracle. Why do that but not attend to the much more pressing stuff that needs dealing with through divine intervention?

The only nun I ever had time for was Sister Wendy, the art historian who wasn't fazed or offended when she came up against Andres Serrano's Piss Christ.
 
If you think about it, it's utterly banal as an example of a miracle. Why do that but not attend to the much more pressing stuff that needs dealing with through divine intervention?

The only nun I ever had time for was Sister Wendy, the art historian who wasn't fazed or offended when she came up against Andres Serrano's Piss Christ.


Water into wine, sounds cool to a load of kids as did dispelling legion into pigs

Making some fish finger butties on a mountain or stopping a lepers finger fall off is pretty boring to a 12 year old ;-)
 
Thanks for your honesty and courage.

I have never had any kind of experience that I would remotely describe as 'religious' but am not dismissive of reports of what are known as mystical experiences.

John's gospel is regarded as the most mystical of the gospels ('I am in the Father and the Father is in me and I am in you' - that sort of thing).

However, if the universe has its own intelligence I doubt very much that it is personal. The problem of evil does it for me too: there's simply too much pointless suffering in the world, and every last drop of it has to have significance if you are a theist, whereas in Buddhism it's just part of the territory and the starting point for the investigation of reality through meditation (not that I am a Buddhist, though).

There's actually a remarkable film about conversion that I only saw last week: Leon Morin, Priest.

It's set during the period of the occupation in wartime France. The main character is a widow, an atheist and communist sympathiser who slips into the local Catholic church intending to take the piss out of one of the resident priests and gets more than she bargained for.

The director is Jean Pierre-Melville, a right-leaning Jewish atheist who is more renowned for his unconventional, existential gangster/heist movies. Melville was a big influence on directors like Tarantino.

Anyway, it's well-worth checking out. It's the only film I have ever watched that makes Theology interesting (I hated teaching most aspects of it). Plus, for a 1961 film there's some content that wouldn't be out of place in Viz Comic.
The evil and suffering point is a really good one and it’s one concept I struggled with the most, as well as hell. Babies dying of dysentery, among other things, is something that I really struggled to reason within a concept of an omnipotent and benevolent creator.

I have, however, come to the conclusion that within the world, there needs to be pain and suffering and consequence, for us to have free will and for the appreciation of what’s good, we need the bad.

Adding to that, the world is fallen because of man’s actions and sins. We’re all guilty of committing these sins and the reason evil reigns in the world, is because of us.

We also have the power, especially in richer countries, to stop suffering and yet the majority look out for number one.

Natural things is hard to get your head around. 9/11 is easy to explain, everyone must have free will and evil men have free will to commit evil and their consequences in a free world, must happen, for it to be free. Same with Covid-19, it’s the fault of men doing what they shouldn’t and the consequences have happened.

You can choose the light or darkness.

What I still struggle with is children born with awful diseases and genetic conditions, or a tsunami killing thousands of people. I am not one that says “God works in mysterious ways” as that’s a cop out, I am honest to say I just don’t know why those things happen but understanding an infinite being, is always going to be incredibly difficult for a finite man such as myself.

If you believe in Christianity, you know that God Himself suffered unimaginable pain by sending his only begotten Son to be tortured and humiliated, so to give us the chance to be with Him again, when we don’t deserve it.

Despite the selfishness and immorality of men, God is still willing to suffer beside us, for us.

I love the Gospel of John, it’s like a love letter and I would recommend reading Luke first, as it’s more comprehensive and detailed and then move on to John after that. Matthew is obviously aimed at Jewish people a bit more and convincing them.

Thank you for the recommendation, I’ll definitely check that film out, is it on Sky, Netflix or Amazon?
 
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I would see regard selfish ignorance rather than sin as the cause of any 'fallen' state. It possibly stems from having a limited view of things, rather than the more expansive one allegedly conferred through mystical experience. Jesus even states in Mark's gospel that to become a disciple one has to 'leave self behind', and I cannot see how you can love your neighbour as yourself without seeing yourself as not separate from them in terms of some kind of unio mystica.

As far as Leon Morin goes, I haven't gone over to streaming yet but secondhand copies of the DVD are cheap to acquire off Amazon.

Another good one is The Mission with Robert De Niro and Jeremy Irons. I have always found that movie to be very moving and it also has a remarkable sequence on conversion.
 
I love the Gospel of John, it’s like a love letter and I would recommend reading Luke first, as it’s more comprehensive and detailed and then move on to John after that. Matthew is obviously aimed at Jewish people a bit more and convincing them.
In case you ever want to undertake some wider reading, EP Sanders' The Historical Figure of Jesus is superb on the gospels and what can reasonably be known about Jesus himself. Elaine Pagels' publications on early Christianity and its origins are also highly readable and impressive.

My atheist ex-colleague rates John Barton's recently published History of the Bible very highly. It looks magisterial judging by the Amazon preview. I have my eye on it myself.
 
In case you ever want to undertake some wider reading, EP Sanders' The Historical Figure of Jesus is superb on the gospels and what can reasonably be known about Jesus himself. Elaine Pagels' publications on early Christianity and its origins are also highly readable and impressive.

My atheist ex-colleague rates John Barton's recently published History of the Bible very highly. It looks magisterial judging by the Amazon preview. I have my eye on it myself.
Thanks mate, I’ll certainly check them out.
 
I would see regard selfish ignorance rather than sin as the cause of any 'fallen' state. It possibly stems from having a limited view of things, rather than the more expansive one allegedly conferred through mystical experience. Jesus even states in Mark's gospel that to become a disciple one has to 'leave self behind', and I cannot see how you can love your neighbour as yourself without seeing yourself as not separate from them in terms of some kind of unio mystica.

As far as Leon Morin goes, I haven't gone over to streaming yet but secondhand copies of the DVD are cheap to acquire off Amazon.

Another good one is The Mission with Robert De Niro and Jeremy Irons. I have always found that movie to be very moving and it also has a remarkable sequence on conversion.
The Gospels contain teachings by Christ that are incredibly difficult for man to do. If we obeyed it though, the world would look totally different and for the better.
 
No I’m not a crack pot that’s the first thing. The earth is changing for the worst climate change Forrest fires water droughts extinction of wild animals the rich getting even more greedy is this our Noah’s Ark moment, killing off our loved ones and still we all show signs of the 7 deadly sins. Just need the internet to crash and burn and I’m convinced.

Are you serious?
 
Just like Santa has his own little helpers, so do the priests as there's much work afoot during the missal or mass. That's why as a child I was volunteered by mother to be an alter boy with my tenure lasting many years. I always volunteered for the midnight mass so I did not have to lose out on Christmas day which would have been beyond the cruel. I may have recanted this story before, but it's not really a story and more of an incident. Our cassocks were always heavily starched and as a laundry metaphor espoused a whiter than white appearance as the alter boy parents vied to out-do each other on centre stage. The starch restricted movement making them clumsy to wear taking on the performance of cardboard.

So that evening I was in charge of the bell ringing and also incense decanting into the thurible, keeping up it's smoke output and swinging it back and forth on request. So I had passed the alter, reached over for the incense stick and retreated back to my bench to finalize the deed. After a while of staring into no mans land and praying for it all to end I glanced to my left at the congregation and saw some of them gesticulating and posturing. I looked away as it was rude to stare and then came a muffled grunt from the pew to the left. Old Mrs McDonna a regular was pointing at me in a hushed mannerism so I raised my hand in a return like a priests gesture acknowledging her kind input then stared quickly away.

The incense was masking the smell of my burning cassock which by now had reached shoulder height. This is were many years of training kick in as I never even flinched but more attempted to brush the toirid flame away. Then The priest shouted out "bob lad your on fire my son" He may or may not have said that as the incident was 53 years ago and some of the detail are now lost in translation. I was started to sting a bit so I jumped up and ran past the alter toward the vestubary which sadly fanned the flames even more. And then in that vestibule doorway a devine intervention came over me, as I turned slowly back toward that alter to perform genuflection. Genuflection is like taking the knee in homage, but this time to the lord and only lasts a moment. By now I was proper ablaze and the priest and a couple of the audience member's were docking me out. As luck would have it I only suffered a few minors and was back in training withing the month but the damage and certainly the trust was gone. Why set one of your child helpers on fire if you were a loving god? It's probably because he is omniprotent omniscience and omnipresence and would have had prior knowledge that I really hated coming to see him. Still a cnunts trick though as I was only 7.

Here is a short video of another poor lad who was also put to the torch.. Apparently it happened a lot back in the day but tends gets airbrushed under the carpet.




Our inner circle circa 1967.

Vjiy0TO.jpg
 
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The Gospels contain teachings by Christ that are incredibly difficult for man to do. If we obeyed it though, the world would look totally different and for the better.

The gospels are pretty much in some places word for word rewrites of the story of Siddhartha Gotama and his life, teachings, put in a setting that fits into the religion of the region.

From the imaculate conception, the temptations the fire sermon and the teachings on renouncing wants and need for possesions and wealth to find eternal peace

Those tales would have been prevalent in the middles east as Greco-buddhism had been around in the region for 300 years and such stories told by merchants and the gnostics who tavelled to india in first century AD brought back many writings


I won't dismiss your new found belief, but don't take the gospels as, well gospel, some of it is as with all religions of the time a mish mash of different peoples stories.

That doesn't mean god ain't real though of JC was his son, that is for each person to believe and others should respect that belief.
 
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The evil and suffering point is a really good one and it’s one concept I struggled with the most, as well as hell. Babies dying of dysentery, among other things, is something that I really struggled to reason within a concept of an omnipotent and benevolent creator.

I have, however, come to the conclusion that within the world, there needs to be pain and suffering and consequence, for us to have free will and for the appreciation of what’s good, we need the bad.

Adding to that, the world is fallen because of man’s actions and sins. We’re all guilty of committing these sins and the reason evil reigns in the world, is because of us.

We also have the power, especially in richer countries, to stop suffering and yet the majority look out for number one.

Natural things is hard to get your head around. 9/11 is easy to explain, everyone must have free will and evil men have free will to commit evil and their consequences in a free world, must happen, for it to be free. Same with Covid-19, it’s the fault of men doing what they shouldn’t and the consequences have happened.

You can choose the light or darkness.

What I still struggle with is children born with awful diseases and genetic conditions, or a tsunami killing thousands of people. I am not one that says “God works in mysterious ways” as that’s a cop out, I am honest to say I just don’t know why those things happen but understanding an infinite being, is always going to be incredibly difficult for a finite man such as myself.

If you believe in Christianity, you know that God Himself suffered unimaginable pain by sending his only begotten Son to be tortured and humiliated, so to give us the chance to be with Him again, when we don’t deserve it.

Despite the selfishness and immorality of men, God is still willing to suffer beside us, for us.

I love the Gospel of John, it’s like a love letter and I would recommend reading Luke first, as it’s more comprehensive and detailed and then move on to John after that. Matthew is obviously aimed at Jewish people a bit more and convincing them.

Thank you for the recommendation, I’ll definitely check that film out, is it on Sky, Netflix or Amazon?
It is utterly staggering how believers twist and subvert their faith structure to facilitate the irrational nonsense of death in the world without just accepting its twaddle.
I know you mean well but as long as you keep posting infantile nonsense like the above it will be challenged.
You are entitled to believe what you want.
Just keep it to yourself.
 
I don’t really know how to answer this without prompting people to think it’s a ridiculous reason.

Im not bothered about ridicule, I just want to do it justice, what happened.

I’ll just leave you with a basic description...

I had the most vivid dream of my life and saw ‘Him’.

Believe me when I say I thought about whether or not is was just a dream for many weeks, I mean really thought about it. There’s several reasons why I eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn’t just a dream.

Following that I read Matthew, Luke and John, by the time I’d finished John I was convinced it was true.

It wasn’t an easy process, I was a C.Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc. fan before and God is Not Great was a book I really enjoyed.

Anyone that’s completely changed their mind either way will know how difficult a process it is, if you’re being honest with yourself, it takes months.
Lol
 

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