“The work of God”?

[Two Gun Bob]

and as many underage boys and girls as take your fancy.

I am not too sure about that, as our priest never laid a finger on me. Except from setting me on fire on his alter once he was as good as gold and a nicer man you would ever wish to meet! But fair to say by our standards he was fooking loaded!

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I am not too sure about that as our priest never laid a finger on me. Except from setting me on fire on his alter he was as good as gold!

same can't be said in my parish, poor sods.

 

[Ban-jani]

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I think a lot of people have a false idea of what the church does and is.

Of course there are fraudsters making millions, but they are the prosperity gospel types in America, Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen for example.

But they’re a minority and other American churches are highly critical of them and quite rightly, because they are fraudsters.

Your average Priest or Minister in a CofE or Catholic Church here isn’t making above the average UK salary.

I have one friend who works for a church and he took a significant pay cut to do so.

There’s a huge straw man on display in this thread and whilst there are negatives within the major denominations, some of them are very grave problems that have been addressed, it’s still unfair to generalise everyone within Christianity and those that work for the church like is being done.

 

[Nellies left peg]

I think a lot of people have a false idea of what the church does and is.

Of course there are fraudsters making millions, but they are the prosperity gospel types in America, Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen for example.

But they’re a minority and other American churches are highly critical of them and quite rightly, because they are fraudsters.

Your average Priest or Minister in a CofE or Catholic Church here isn’t making above the average UK salary.

I have one friend who works for a church and he took a significant pay cut to do so.

There’s a huge straw man on display in this thread and whilst there are negatives within the major denominations, some of them are very grave problems that have been addressed, it’s still unfair to generalise everyone within Christianity and those that work for the church like is being done.

I'm sure he did it by choice so can't complain. If you don't like it get off your cassock and get a proper job tell him

 

[Ban-jani]

I'm sure he did it by choice so can't complain. If you don't like it get off your cassock and get a proper job tell him

He did and he doesn’t complain.

That doesn’t mean it’s accurate to talk about the “gravy train” of the church.

 

[Nellies left peg]

He did and he doesn’t complain.

That doesn’t mean it’s accurate to talk about the “gravy train” of the church.

I've never said it was a gravy train but it is a vocation like nursing and these people don't enter the profession for financial renumeration although nurses seem to have it rather harder than the local clergy and don’t flourish on the guilt or insecurity of their flock

 

[sniff]

Bad people get into all walks of life you think without religion these things wouldn’t happen, maybe we discard the BBC based on this or football clubs. Your point isn’t relevant to the topic at hand.

By the way just because someone works for the church it doesn’t always follow they even believe in God or the Bible for that matter.

Well its perfectly relevant. its not the individual that allowed perpetrators to continue to do just that. It was an organised attempt by lets face it, the earthly face of god and religion. To cover up and still allow those people to hide from justice. So its very relevant unless you stand football clubs or the BBC in the same way as organised religion, i fail to see how you can ,make that comparison. Its a fact it happened and that it still happens all over the world. so in the case i was talking about, that was the whole crux of the issue

 

[Ban-jani]

I've never said it was a gravy train but it is a vocation like nursing and these people don't enter the profession for financial renumeration although nurses seem to have it rather harder than the local clergy

I wasn’t talking about you and I actually agree with what you’ve said. The work itself isn’t that difficult but it’s obviously their passion.

Some others on this thread have the impression people who work for the church are loaded.

As Journocloud pointed out, the average salary for someone that’s a Priest is £5,000 less than the UK average.

 

[Ban-jani]

Well its perfectly relevant. its not the individual that allowed perpetrators to continue to do just that. It was an organised attempt by lets face it, the earthly face of god and religion. To cover up and still allow those people to hide from justice. So its very relevant unless you stand football clubs or the BBC in the same way as organised religion, i fail to see how you can ,make that comparison. Its a fact it happened and that it still happens all over the world. so in the case i was talking about, that was the whole crux of the issue

“The earthly face of God”.

They may think they are and you may say they are but it doesn’t make it so.

The New Testament is very clear on paedophilia, so those committing it or covering it up are doing the opposite of what the religion actually teaches.

And anyway, if you’re going to blame the whole religion for the terrible actions of some clergyman, are you going to praise the whole religion with the countless good works done?

 

[Nellies left peg]

I wasn’t talking about you and I actually agree with what you’ve said. The work itself isn’t that difficult but it’s obviously their passion.

Some others on this thread have the impression people who work for the church are loaded.

As Journocloud pointed out, the average salary for someone that’s a Priest is £5,000 less than the UK average

“The earthly face of God”.

They may think they are and you may say they are but it doesn’t make it so.

The New Testament is very clear on paedophilia, so those committing it or covering it up are doing the opposite of what the religion actually teaches.

And anyway, if you’re going to blame the whole religion for the terrible actions of some clergyman, are you going to praise the whole religion with the countless good works done?

To be fair when my sister in law tragically died a few years ago the local priest went above and beyond and speaking as I find, he was a credit to the vocation and for an unbeliever like me is saying something

 

[journolud]

I've never said it was a gravy train but it is a vocation like nursing and these people don't enter the profession for financial renumeration although nurses seem to have it rather harder than the local clergy and don’t flourish on the guilt or insecurity of their flock

The starting salary for a newly qualified nurse, while poor is I think above what has been posted as that for priests

This thread has taken a pretty unpleasant turn; the arguments against religion I can understand but having seemingly exhausted those now seems to be open season on those who choose to follow their religion in choice of career with some inaccurate characterisations and assumptions

 

[Ban-jani]

To be fair when my sister in law tragically died a few years ago the local priest went above and beyond and speaking as I find, he was a credit to the vocation and for an unbeliever like me is saying something

The guy I know who works for the church spent a significant time in the Mediterranean helping refugees, during the crisis.

There was a mass coverup in the Catholic Church and a failure to act decades ago in the Church of England, which I’m just as angry about as anyone, I think it’s a disgrace, but we shouldn’t tar all clergyman with the same brush, there are more that are good people than bad.

 

[Nellies left peg]

The guy I know who works for the church spent a significant time in the Mediterranean helping refugees, during the crisis.

There was a mass coverup in the Catholic Church and a failure to act decades ago in the Church of England, which I’m just as angry about as anyone, I think it’s a disgrace, but we shouldn’t tar all clergyman with the same brush, there are more that are good people than bad.

The man I refer to also spent time looking after the poorer souls in Spain for a while and is now fluent in the language and is not averse to a glass or two of rioja

 

[Two Gun Bob]

He did and he doesn’t complain.

That doesn’t mean it’s accurate to talk about the “gravy train” of the church.

The Bisto Best Gravy train and some real wedge and coin to be made in the ministry Ban. You don't think they fook of to theologian college for 5 long soul destroying years until ordainment, for the love of the lord now do you and that's only if they have studied philosophy at the undergraduate level, otherwize it's more. Think of it like a job such as an electrician or plumber but with loads of added extras.

We had a lad in our pub and I am going back at least a decade ago called Simon (not that simon mind) and worked on the tarmac and the building trade and we all loved him to bits because he was a real character that only passes along the road to damascus once in a blue moon. Anyway it came to pass that Simon tended to swear a lot hence his nic of Sweary-Simon. He went to the same catholic school as myself and other pub goers and one day he came in and started preaching the gospel to us all in a colourful manner.

You see, he had found baby Jesus and wanted to spread the word to whichever poor sod would afford him a casual glance. After many months of this we had to change his nic to Father Fuck as he had expressed a need to join the priesthood. Many more months of lay preaching continued around that bar, until our dear disciple Wobbly Bob dropped down and died of a heart attack. A brilliant pub character that would always engage in debate whenever he could lift his head off the bar and we all missed him greatly. And it was the day of the funeral and Father Fook contacted me and said we can share a taxi down to the crematorium. So we had a pint or two in wobbly's memory and now it was time to pay our last respects. Father fook got us back to the crematorium and it was packed out and we never knew he was so popular and it goes to show that the lord works in mysterious ways and there is a life outside a village pub. I had no idea he even worked on the railways as the minister cracked out anecdotal story after anecdotal story. And then it was time to say goodbye as the curtains closed and the lay preacher asked us all to clap out loudly for Dave. So we had been at the wrong funeral and Father-Fook was to the ministries what Baldrick was to black-adders side kick and an abject waste of oxygen and space time continuum.

We rushed back to the village to blend in nicely with the mourners and plated our-self some butties and sausage rolls in. It was then that Father introduced me to a lady and I embraced her fondly and said thanks for coming love. It was only later he told me in fits of laughter that that was wobbly bobs wife and repeated a million times to me thanks for coming love!

If he had of made it into the ministries I think he would have been a good priest and also comfortable priest and certainly more money than the building trade could offer with it's sporadic earnings and lay offs. I stand by the church being a gravy train and some decent coin to be made if your face fits.

 

[Ban-jani]

The Bisto Best Gravy train and some real wedge and coin to be made in the ministry Ban. You don't think they fook of to theologian college for 5 long soul destroying years until their ordainment for the love of the lord now do you and that's only if they have studied philosophy at the undergraduate level otherwize it's even more. Think of it like a job such as an electrician or plumber but with loads of added extras.

We had a lad in our pub and I am going back at least a decade ago called Simon (not that simon mind) and worked on the tarmac and the building trade and we all loved him to bits because he was a real character that only passes along the road to damascus once in a blue moon. Anyway it came to pass that Simon tended to swear a lot hence his nic of Sweary-Simon. He went to the same catholic school as myself and other pub goers and one day he came in and started preaching the gospel to us all in a colourful manner.

You see he had found baby Jesus and wanted to spread the word to whichever poor sod would afford him a casual glance. After many months of this we had to change his nic to Father Fuck as he had expressed a need to join the priesthood. Many more months of lay preaching continued around the bar until our dear disciple Wobbly Bob dropped down and died of a heart attack. A brilliant pub character that would always engage in debate whenever he could lift his head off the bar and we all missed him greatly. And it was the day of the funeral and Father Fook contacted me and said we can share a taxi down to the crematorium. So we had a pint or two in wobbly's memory and now it was time to pay our last respects. Father fook got us back to the crematorium and it was packed out and we never knew he was so popular and it goes to show that the lord works in mysterious ways and there is a life outside of a village pub where others may fear to tread. I had no idea he even worked on the railways as the minister cracked out anecdotal story after anecdotal story. And then it was time to say goodbye as the curtains closed and the lay preacher asked us all to clap out loudly for Dave. So we had been at the wrong funeral and Father-Fook was to the ministries what Baldrick was to black-adders side kick and an abject waste of oxygen and space time continuum.

We rushed back to the village to blend in nicely with the mourners and plated our-self some butties and sausage rolls in. It was then that Father introduced me to a lady and I embraced her fondly and said thanks for coming love. It was only later he told me in fits of laughter that that was wobbly bobs wife and repeated a million times to me thanks for coming love!

If he had of made it into the ministries I think he would have been a good priest and also comfortable priest and certainly more money than the building trade could offer with it's sporadic earnings and lay offs. I stand by the church being a gravy train and some decent coin to be made if your face fits.

Did he really take you to the wrong funeral?

 

[Two Gun Bob]

I wasn’t talking about you and I actually agree with what you’ve said. The work itself isn’t that difficult but it’s obviously their passion.

How do you know this Ban. Are you all seeing and all knowing and omnitropent. You cannot know the people that enter the ministries from Adam. I never said they was loaded I said it's a great job with great money and loads of nice added on extras includeding a smashing detached house. Also people talk to you respectfully as if you are godly or something. Yes I want some of that please, when do I start.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

The starting salary for a newly qualified nurse, while poor is I think above what has been posted as that for priests

This thread has taken a pretty unpleasant turn; the arguments against religion I can understand but having seemingly exhausted those now seems to be open season on those who choose to follow their religion in choice of career with some inaccurate characterisations and assumptions

Its not an open season. Just merely espousing that the perks happen to be good perks. A great living if you can pull it off and Father-Lud has a certain auru about it. Good luck and bless you my son

 

[Ban-jani]

How do you know this Ban. Are you all seeing and all knowing and omnitropent. You do not know the people that enter the ministries from Adam. I never said they was loaded I said it's a great job with great money and loads of nice added on extras includeding a smashing detached house. Also people talk to you respectfully as if you are godly or something. Yes I want some of that please, when do I start.

Those I know who work for the church rely on their spouses to bring in enough bread for their lives to be comfortable.

Maybe it’s possible there’s a difference depending on which denomination, which church and which religion ?

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

And?

You Don't think its huge coincidence that the place you were born determins what religion you are?

If you were born in Pakistan you would be a Muslim, and you wouldn't believe in any other. You just happen to be a Christian through pure luck
.

 

[sniff]

“The earthly face of God”.

They may think they are and you may say they are but it doesn’t make it so.

The New Testament is very clear on paedophilia, so those committing it or covering it up are doing the opposite of what the religion actually teaches.

And anyway, if you’re going to blame the whole religion for the terrible actions of some clergyman, are you going to praise the whole religion with the countless good works done?

Well it kind of is just that way really. The Pope is seen as the face of God and the actual human link.. Thats why they have a thing called Papal Infallibility, because like god, the pope is infallible by definition.

Im not blaming them for all the bad in the world, i haven't said anything of the sort, so do not attribute those statements to myself. Im just pointing out the hypocrisy that surrounds the institution. Because weather you believe it or not, the actions of the pope and the instruction he gives are already stated infallible, so unquestionable by yourself, or any living human... so religion can teach you many good things, and in my honest opinion it was just a bunch of good ideas, and jesus prob was a cool free thinking dude who ruffled some feathers, do i think he was divine ? well no.

Religion has done many good things, i often did charity stuff whilst at a catholic school. but the historical evidence suggests that has always been at the cost of more sinister agendas and some of the worst atrocities in human history. How can you even deny that evidence if it is something you firmly believe in ? because you cant make the rules, and you cant choose which ones to pick up and ones you drop. its an all encompassing Dogma by very definition