COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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mackenzie said:
Ok, I'm not wumming here (and maybe being a bit thick), but why were the Nightingales built and then not used??
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It's a very good question and one the government just haven't answered. Reading between the lines I would think:
1) when it was March/April, before any of our test/track and trace was up and running properly, it was all hands to the pump and retired staff had come forward to help and pull together. But summer weather and distancing had a profound effect and the nightingales were rarely used/needed and mothballed/closed. I suspect those people went back to retirement or supported staff until deemed not necessary. Someone that works for the NHS on here might know how that worked out.
2) This wave is higher than April - and resources are stretched but it all points to not enough staff to man them. That could be because more staff tested this time round and having to isolate, more staff could be off with stress, and of course Brexit is looming.. could we have EU staff that have simply decided to go home?

I do have a small fear that the nightingale could open at great cost but the goverment might have chosen to plough money into vaccine rollout instead. I hope I'm wrong on that.
 
ctwrd said:
You sound like you think the reason why there is an issue is one those not following the rules.

if the virus is so easily spread, why does it rely on non-adherence to the rules to get out of control?

I don’t deny there isnt rule breaking (the scientists factor that into their modelling of lockdown) but it’s so lazy and tiresome to point to it as the problem. This is a virus which is impossible to stop spreading without restrictions on the ordinary way of life. We are living our lives incredibly differently to normal. There is absolutely no way that those not following the rules are anything more than the minority. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. It’s just not happening to that extent. On the contrary and this has been cited by government, scientists etc... compliance has been beyond what was expected.

let’s look at the data and find other explanations
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As an island nation it was in our grasp to rid ourselves of the virus in the late spring/summer.

cases were in 100’s, deaths in single figures.

but we didn’t lock borders, we didn’t enforce quarantine, and people didn’t do the simple adherence of an almost ‘normal’ life.

NZ is living a normal life, Taiwan is living a normal life,Aus is living a normal life (with severe local lockdowns if idiots break incoming quarantine - Melbourne, Sydney), a host of other small island nations are similar.

the chance came and went.
 
sniff said:
My understanding is that they had been set up as an overflow and the plan was to staff them with people they brought out of retirement, also they graduated the full year of student nurses early so they could be brought in to service them.

How i understand it. Now those extra staff they took back are again out of the service, so they have no staff that could properly run them. On the whole the issue of capacity is more to do with staffing levels as many have had to isolate etc..
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But why didn't they factor those possibles/probables into it? Even early on NHS were dropping like flies.
 
MIDLANDS HOSPITAL DATA

Patients 3368 / 3228 / 3233 / 3329 / 3515 TODAY - so this rising too but not close to London.

They passed their wave 1 peak today. It was 3430 on 12 April.

Ventilators 264 / 271 / 284 / 279 / 278 TODAY - not escalating like London

Their wave one peak was 485 on 13 April
 
Healdplace said:
MIDLANDS HOSPITAL DATA

Patients 3368 / 3228 / 3233 / 3329 / 3515 TODAY - so this rising too but not close to London.

They passed their wave 1 peak today. It was 3430 on 12 April.

Ventilators 264 / 271 / 284 / 279 / 278 TODAY - not escalating like London

Their wave one peak was 485 on 13 April
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Surely it’s down to the fact that it was care homes that got ravaged in peak one, or maybe certain drugs they’ve tried are having an impact, or both?
 
JASR said:
As an island nation it was in our grasp to rid ourselves of the virus in the late spring/summer.

cases were in 100’s, deaths in single figures.

but we didn’t lock borders, we didn’t enforce quarantine, and people didn’t do the simple adherence of an almost ‘normal’ life.

NZ is living a normal life, Taiwan is living a normal life,Aus is living a normal life (with severe local lockdowns if idiots break incoming quarantine - Melbourne, Sydney), a host of other small island nations are similar.

the chance came and went.
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Dont we have to abide by EU freedom of movement laws though. We have 2.4m EU nationals working in the UK.

I agree with you but I don’t think we could have done this without breaking this law.

I may be wrong though.
 
ctwrd said:
You sound like you think the reason why there is an issue is one those not following the rules.

if the virus is so easily spread, why does it rely on non-adherence to the rules to get out of control?

I don’t deny there isnt rule breaking (the scientists factor that into their modelling of lockdown) but it’s so lazy and tiresome to point to it as the problem. This is a virus which is impossible to stop spreading without restrictions on the ordinary way of life. We are living our lives incredibly differently to normal. There is absolutely no way that those not following the rules are anything more than the minority. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. It’s just not happening to that extent. On the contrary and this has been cited by government, scientists etc... compliance has been beyond what was expected.

let’s look at the data and find other explanations
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The issue is more to do with travel (within U.K. or foreign), and then not quarantining as per rules/simple understanding.
Cummings and other muppet MPs have a lot to answer for, by their unleading by example.

The local social distancing would help, as would mask wearing in public places.

But the main thing was to stop the spread... and stopping the spread is to do with travel and non familial interaction.

once that genie was out of the bottle in the summer, it was (to the vast majority of healthcare) inevitable that we’d be in the shit come winter.

it was obvious to me (completely non healthcare), as the numbers ticked up from the summer.
 
NE/YORKSHIRE HOSPITAL DATA

Patients 2359 / 2233 / 2257 / 2328 / 2437 TODAY Not going up much at all in keeping with their best in England performance right now. They passed their wave one peak in wave 2 on October and are already 1000 lower than than.

Ventilators 139 / 139 / 149 / 144 / 159 TODAY Again well below the wave 2 peak in October when they were more than 100 up on now and the 10 April wave 1 peak at 302.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Dont we have to abide by EU freedom of movement laws though. We have 2.4m EU nationals working in the UK.

I agree with you but I don’t think we could have done this without breaking this law.

I may be wrong though.
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They (many eu) banned travel from U.K., with the U.K. mutation. I think a country would do anything to protect their borders and suffer the consequences of court months later.
 
Ban-jani said:
Surely it’s down to the fact that it was care homes that got ravaged in peak one, or maybe certain drugs they’ve tried are having an impact, or both?
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As I said in my first post on this data above on this. Better treatment has been keeping people off ventilators and that was clear in wave 2 data I was posting in October.

They over reacted in April as they were treating a new virus live with not many options.

They almost put Boris on one and he has thanked them for not doing since saying they likely saved his life by choosing not to do.
 
JASR said:
Sadly you can’t ignore them.

they are causing the issues to the everything but covid health of the nation.

and then bleat about the reduced level of care of everything but the covid health of the nation.

ie selfish - blame the govt, others, the old, the kids, China, bill gates, Biden, but not take responsibility for their own actions.
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Lol, I was just referring to Bluemoon, but yeah, I get your point.
 
mackenzie said:
So they built them for a worse case scenario (which I understand completely) but knowing they have barely had enough staff for years to cover "normal" peaks? And when they were already calling for retired volunteers,?
It just doesn't make any sense as a long term plan. The building them does, but the actual logistics of manning them doesn't.
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You think the govt has had any long term plan in any of this?!?
It was clear they didn’t when it took 6 weeks after being told to lockdown 1.0 that they did.
And also opening the borders in late spring.

Other than the hope of a vaccine, they have no long term plan, and hoped for a short term ‘going away’ of it.

hence where we are
 
itsnevereasy said:
Any grown adult should be able to feed themselves.
Medication can be delivered
Can covid measures not be in place for them attending appointments, as say how they do now..
Bills can be paid on line, if they struggle with this plenty of people can help.
Sanity - well the hope of having life back to normal verse what we have now.

Life has an element of risk in all areas - minimise risks for the vulnerable. Doesn’t mean there won’t be risks.
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This is 20 million people you're talking about.

It's totally impractical. We haven't even managed to keep the virus out of care homes, the most protected part of the community, with low levels elsewhere!

Your "strategy" will result in the virus running through the entire population double quick and hundreds of thousands dying.
 
I'm sure someone will correct me, but isn't it pointless and misleading to compare second wave figures to first wave figures, in terms of cases at least? Due to far more testing being done?
 
roubaixtuesday said:
No, it's not. Your "solution" results in an out of control virus infecting the entire population.
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It already is. Your solution does no differently, it just makes everyone stay at home for a month on the basis of an unapproved vaccine still spreading it amongst the people they're now stuck with, or meet in the shops, or meet in a clandestine fashion, or meet because they have to go to work. No change. You either go the whole hog and nobody leaves home till they've been fully vaccinated because your own half baked measure doesn't work, all it does it put the vulnerable in the same position as they would with mine, at least I'm being honest and realistic on who we can protect at this point, you're not, you just want to pretend whilst using everyone else as expendable pawns in a disingenuous fashion because you have no solution for them but expect them to dance to your whims.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
This is 20 million people you're talking about.

It's totally impractical. We haven't even managed to keep the virus out of care homes, the most protected part of the community, with low levels elsewhere!

Your "strategy" will result in the virus running through the entire population double quick and hundreds of thousands dying.
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exactly the same problem with a lockdown because those people need to be accessed. So your solution doesn't save anyone else. The same "hundreds of thousands" that haven't died at any point would die either way.
 
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