Coronavirus (2021) thread

[Marvin]

Don’t think there will be much evasion, what there is though will be more younger middle aged, than over 65s.
Ever older person I’ve spoken to can’t wait to get it and start making the most of their later years. And though it sounds a bit morbid, seeing their friends and saying goodbye to their friends sick in hospitals / care homes or at funerals, they are finding not doing that that the most upsetting.

Vaccine evasion relates to the antibodies which the vaccine generate in everyone and the change in confirmation of a variant which can chnage significantly enough so that antibodies no longer are able to neutralise it (they basically bind to it And then change the confirmation of the complex so it can no longer function).

 

[Marvin]

Fully agree

Need supply though. At the moment we don't have supply to warrant a war-footing.

 

[meltonblue]

I can’t get my head around why we’re still not doing mandatory testing at airports.

 

[Summerbuzz]

Over 90% of the deaths come from the 12.3m people over 65 years.

Given how many have already been done, roughly 5 weeks of 2 million vaccines a week and this pandemic is effectively over.

Holy shit. Not a chance mate. Seriously. So optimistic about how quickly and effectively the vaccines will help us achieve immunity.

Factors out the door and down the street why that would not be the case. Organise that many voluntary jabs in a concentrated time? We have nothing in infrastructure and no experience like that. Training people?

Just getting the vulnerable groups in an orderly and timely fashion is going to be a miracle in practise. Seriously, as impressive as it gets.

Think on. There's no way of forcing people to get it quickly. And many will want to wait and see. Or won't, can't make time. Missed second appointments. Failed jabs. Poor reactions, coincidental illnesses, huge scare stories.

Then, uhh. 12 week gap for Oxford second dose. Nowhere near enough supply of any of these globally. Every batch being fought for by more than just governments.

General risk of unprecedented viral loads about to reach untold heights.

And nothing, nothing proven in the field.

Whew.

My dream scenario is no lockdowns next winter, and long covid not wrecking the next 12 months for 2m otherwise fit and healthy people. That is considered the height of optimism around here.

5 weeks???? I can't get a regular appointment at a GP in 5 weeks. There were 18 people queing on the phone at 11 am today. And it's been like that all year!

 

[squirtyflower]

Unless they sort out this idiocy we will never get people vaccinated in time, the country should be put on a war like footing to get these jabs done, all possible means explored and delivered.

Too much politics not enough actual doing.

Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort - BBC News

That’s not politics mate, that’s the woke elite taking over our public bodies to the detriment of the people they serve.

 

[blueparrot]

national lockdown or volunteers form the hospitality industry who cannot work would free up some people to be trained and administer vaccinations.

I agree, not saying it can't be done, just don't expect to be able to ramp it up to 24 hours using only the medical pesonell we have currently trained for it.

 

[artfuldodger]

Maybe we will, but volunteers will need recruiting. My daughter saying staff at her hospital have been asked, to work days off, first to staff places outside her hospital were patients have been moved to to make room for covid cases, secondly to do vaccinations. Most have said no, they are too exhausted physically and emotionally and need their days off.
Volunteers may be found from other sources to do 24 hours but it's easier said than done.

There are NHS staff like my sister who have worked from home since March. She is employed to teach sexual health in schools. There must be many more like her who could be redeployed.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Vaccine evasion relates to the antibodies which the vaccine generate in everyone and the change in confirmation of a variant which can chnage significantly enough so that antibodies no longer are able to neutralise it (they basically bind to it And then change the confirmation of the complex so it can no longer function).

So is it a case of being a race to get as many people vaccinated as possible which will ultimately reduce the chances of what you've just mentioned happening or is there a possibility this situation could happen even with a sizeable amount of people already vaccinated?

 

[trumpton]

My youngest's school, due back tomorrow are not opening. Just had the message, apparently insufficient staff to open. No idea how long for.

 

[Summerbuzz]

That’s not politics mate, that’s the woke elite taking over our public bodies to the detriment of the people they serve.

That's a highly political statement using highly politicised terms about the supposed politics of the officials!

 

[blueparrot]

Holy shit. Not a chance mate. Seriously. So optimistic about how quickly and effectively the vaccines will help us achieve immunity.

Factors out the door and down the street why that would not be the case. Organise that many voluntary jabs in a concentrated time? We have nothing in infrastructure and no experience like that. Training people?

Just getting the vulnerable groups in an orderly and timely fashion is going to be a miracle in practise. Seriously, as impressive as it gets.

Think on. There's no way of forcing people to get it quickly. And many will want to wait and see. Or won't, can't make time. Missed second appointments. Failed jabs. Poor reactions, coincidental illnesses, huge scare stories.

Then, uhh. 12 week gap for Oxford second dose. Nowhere near enough supply of any of these globally. Every batch being fought for by more than just governments.

General risk of unprecedented viral loads about to reach untold heights.

And nothing, nothing proven in the field.

Whew.

My dream scenario is no lockdowns next winter, and long covid not wrecking the next 12 months for 2m otherwise fit and healthy people. That is considered the height of optimism around here.

5 weeks???? I can't get a regular appointment at a GP in 5 weeks. There were 18 people queing on the phone at 11 am today. And it's been like that all year!

No , think by the end January the 2 million / day will be achieved, The first dose will keep most out of hospital, so 5 weeks may be a tad ambitious ,but think the 12 mill by mid Feb is achievable, and we’ll see the results in hospital reductions by the end Feb. Then the other 12 mill in the 9 groups of phase 1 will have had their first dose by end of March and we will be on the way out by the time we have done the 24 mill second doses by the end June, ready to move to phase 2.

 

[hammocity]

Tier 5 by Friday I reckon.
Masks on outside anywhere.
All schools shut.
1 hour exercise a day walking distance from home only.
No option about working from home. If you can, you do.
Redefining of what retail can open.
Golf clubs shut.

Golf clubs per se are have been shut since the Tier 3 lockdown. Courses are open but only for "bubble" same household players. In 30 years of playing golf I've never not played with friends so it's effectively closed for me and my golfing friends.

 

[hammocity]

It’s great that the Oxford / AZ vaccine is being rolled out. It’s more important than ever to stay safe

Good god, that image is haunting, so sad.

 

[mexico1970]

That’s not politics mate, that’s the woke elite taking over our public bodies to the detriment of the people they serve.

Maybe so bud, whatever the reason for this it's shocking.

 

[domalino]

Holy shit. Not a chance mate. Seriously. So optimistic about how quickly and effectively the vaccines will help us achieve immunity.

Factors out the door and down the street why that would not be the case. Organise that many voluntary jabs in a concentrated time? We have nothing in infrastructure and no experience like that. Training people?

Just getting the vulnerable groups in an orderly and timely fashion is going to be a miracle in practise. Seriously, as impressive as it gets.

Think on. There's no way of forcing people to get it quickly. And many will want to wait and see. Or won't, can't make time. Missed second appointments. Failed jabs. Poor reactions, coincidental illnesses, huge scare stories.

Then, uhh. 12 week gap for Oxford second dose. Nowhere near enough supply of any of these globally. Every batch being fought for by more than just governments.

General risk of unprecedented viral loads about to reach untold heights.

And nothing, nothing proven in the field.

Whew.

My dream scenario is no lockdowns next winter, and long covid not wrecking the next 12 months for 2m otherwise fit and healthy people. That is considered the height of optimism around here.

5 weeks???? I can't get a regular appointment at a GP in 5 weeks. There were 18 people queing on the phone at 11 am today. And it's been like that all year!

I understand the pessimism but there's not a lot of basis to any of these claims.

For a start, no volunteers are needed for the 2m a week figure, that's going to be hit when 1000 centres across the country open and we're already at 730 today, with that expected to almost double in the next 2 weeks as more GP offices come online with non-medical volunteers (ie organising queues and registering arrivals on a PC).

Secondly supply, you're just flat out wrong here, the Telegraph have reported today we have 24 million combined doses at AZ and delivered from Pfizer already waiting ready to go right now, available to be delivered anywhere in the country within days.

As for the second dose, as I already replied, that's not important. If you give people the first dose they are pretty much out of the equation as far as the pandemic is concerned. Pfizer first dose gives 90% immunity in the short term, and 80% for Oxford/AZ according to MHRA, so once you've got that you are as good as immune until the second jab in 12 weeks time.


As for "forcing" people to take it, or vaccine avoiders...they just don't exist on the level you think they do. There is no shortage of people wanting the vaccine and there won't be among the demographics who actually risk death when they get infected.


Pessimism is expected but a lot of your claims are over the top and baseless. We have the infrastructure, we have the vaccine, what we need is to hear the government speaking clearly about how they're going to scale this up by the third week of January as promised so people can start believing it.

 

[hammocity]

Of which I am one and we are in desperate need of financial help but I just don't see it happening.

Have you managed to get the "bounce back loan"? I've done so but not touched it yet, it's there as an emergency.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Have you managed to get the "bounce back loan"? I've done so but not touched it yet, it's there as an emergency.

No not yet. Last resort as ultimately it will need to be repaid. Would live to have a grant like so many others to help pay bills etc but looks like Rishi doesn't know the difference between self employed and directors of a limited company

 

[Marvin]

So is it a case of being a race to get as many people vaccinated as possible which will ultimately reduce the chances of what you've just mentioned happening or is there a possibility this situation could happen even with a sizeable amount of people already vaccinated?

Statistically the longer the virus coexists alongside antibodies to its spike protein the greater the chance that we force change we don't want to see so my suggestion is we vaccinate as fast as possible. Hardly revolutionary! Reducing travel would also help. Variants will develop independently. We need to reduce their opportunity to evolve still further.

I think scientists and governments know a lot more than they are letting on which worries me. COnsider that the Astrazeneca has been running a trial in South Africa. It is inconceivable that they haven't been looking at this. On the plus side the South African epidemic though growing is not exploding, Africa remains quiescent and the vaccine companies tell us they can adapt their vaccines if necessary.

I think you can figure all this out for yourself, and have probably done so;

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

My good lady has received a text informing her that her second jab will be going ahead this week. Those who have bookings for the 6th, 7th and 8th told to still attend.
"Message from your GP. Following recent media comment this is to clarify that if you or someone you know has their 2nd covid vaccination booked for 6th 7th or 8th of January these vaccinations will be going ahead and it is important patients attend. Thank you."

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Good god, that image is haunting, so sad.

It is a real tradgedy. I’ve heard that families are dying in the latest wave but this really brings it home