I do have an opinion but there’s no way you can put a specific figure on it for blaming the government.
My opinion is based on our big neighbours in France and Germany, for example, who have had 50,000+ and 70,000+ deaths.
Merkel has been praised on here for her quick response and how she dealt with it earlier than Johnson, yet has had 50,000 deaths, and that’s even factoring in their measurement of deaths related to Covid being stricter than ours.
I think it’s very fair to say that it would have been incredibly difficult, nigh on impossible, to keep it below 10,000 and a similar amount to Germany was at least inevitable.
I think it's fair to say many lives could have been saved, but impossible to put a figure on it.Is it a fair summary of that, based on that comparison, to say you think that around 30-50,000 people have died as a result of mistakes this government has made? (Accepting as read the caveats about the difficulties of attributing a specific death to a specific causal factor.)
I think it's fair to say many lives could have been saved, but impossible to put a figure on it.
Is it a fair summary of that, based on that comparison, to say you think that around 30-50,000 people have died as a result of mistakes this government has made? (Accepting as read the caveats about the difficulties of attributing a specific death to a specific causal factor.)
Well, how many do you think?
No idea. If we'd have stopped any international movement of people or goods and had a complete lockdown like wuhan with nobody allowed out at all for a month last March, and no international travel since then we might have saved nearly all of them. Its always a choice between killing people or killing the economy and I think all govt have tried to achieve an acceptable balance of both. For me our govt have stumbled through this compromise in a generally well meaning way but fucked up a few key things, and generally the things they have got right have been done too late.Well, how many do you think?
You can’t possibly draw these conclusions, far too many variables.
Population age and general health, especially in areas worst affected, are massive deciders in outcomes. That’s without considering our social care system and variations of the virus.
We need an enquiry to learn from this and but the starting and ending point should not be what did the government do wrong but rather a holistic review of “health” in the UK be that acute settings, care home settings, our own personal health, etc. This government (and successive ones) has an opportunity to make every one of those deaths matter and enact real and meaningful change.
No idea. If we'd have stopped any international movement of people or goods and had a complete lockdown like wuhan with nobody allowed out at all for a month last March, and no international travel since then we might have saved nearly all of them. Its always a choice between killing people or killing the economy and I think all govt have tried to achieve an acceptable balance of both. For me our govt have stumbled through this compromise in a generally well meaning way but fucked up a few key things, and generally the things they have got right have been done too late.
No I wouldn’t say it is fair.Is it a fair summary of that, based on that comparison, to say you think that around 30-50,000 people have died as a result of mistakes this government has made? (Accepting as read the caveats about the difficulties of attributing a specific death to a specific causal factor.)
Perhaps take the number of deaths comparable to other European nations, proximity, size, etc and use any excess number above an average as a means of determining Govt culpability?
I would agree with that yes.Do you agree with the basic premise that government errors have cost people’s lives?
Do you agree with the basic premise that government errors have cost people’s lives?
It might not be rocket science, but it's certainly epidemiology and medical science which I'm about as qualified in as rocket science! I sense you are trying to have an argument that I'm just not qualified to engage in. I'm not ducking the issue, or being pro-government, I just don't know the answer.We didn’t do those things though. You expressed the view that people have died as a result of the government’s incompetence, I’m asking for your opinion as to how many it is. It’s not rocket science, it’s just your opinion.
Median age UK around 40Ha ha ha
Coffey on GMB blames the public's age and obesity on the high COVID death rate rather than the inaction of her government and when called out on it, and morgan repeats her words that she blames us for being too old or too fat, accuses him of being offensive,
Then when called out on her hipocracy fumbles around for 5 mins trying to end the Zoom call.
Absolutely clownshoe
No I wouldn’t say it is fair.
It’s incredibly difficult to put a figure on what is the government’s fault, what is the fault of individuals in the public, and how the variant as expedited our death figures etc.
There are too many mitigating factors, so whilst I am sure if they had done some things differently, lives would have been saved, it’s impossible to know if they were directly at fault for specific numbers of deaths. This is even considering the advice they initially followed in March last year.
It might not be rocket science, but it's certainly epidemiology and medical science which I'm about as qualified in as rocket science! I sense you are trying to have an argument that I'm just not qualified to engage in. I'm not ducking the issue, or being pro-government, I just don't know the answer.
I would agree with that yes.
In short, fuck knows. Certainly thousands, maybe tens of thousands.I didn’t suggest you were qualified to give an expert opinion, Im just interested in what your personal opinion is.
No. I would agree with the basic premise that government decisions have saved tens of thousands of lives and quite probably hundreds of thousands of lives. If we were to analyse these decisions and say could more lives have been saved then the answer is probably yes.
For example a policy in the first week of closing all borders and shooting anyone who either had the virus or came into contact with them (probably the Chinese approach) then we’d have looked like world beaters. Crazy policy which the government clearly decided against so I guess that’s blood on their hands. Flippant example but was used for the purposes of the fallacy of criticising decisions based on what ifs and (whether subconsciously) applying hindsight.
In short, fuck knows. Certainly thousands, maybe tens of thousands.