Coronavirus (2021) thread

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squirtyflower said:
Oooooh
But I thought the EU said the vaccine wasn‘t any good for the over 65’s, but now they are withholding the movement of the vaccine they haven’t passed, that they said is no good, leaving their factory.
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Think you’re conflating Germany with the EU, though that is quite common in the political forum...
 
I imagine there will be lots of vaccine scare stories to try to protect national interests.

The vaccine that has most proven success will make billions for any nation tied to it financially in the post apocalyptic world.

I always assumed that the Oxford vaccine was perfect for the third world where costs and lack of facilities are issues and their big need is avoiding getting remote villagers to non existent hospitals by illness being moderated not stopping 90% from catching it and the rest still needing to go to those non existent hospitals,

There are billions of dollars at stake and this will not be the last my vaccine is better than yours story we will hear.
 
Also in the German press today, Mealworms are great for breakfast! EU approval as a foodstuff is imminent.

As if the Bladerunner 2049 vibe hadn't already set it around here.
 
Hopefully Germany (& by default the EU) will have shot themselves in the foot with this as how could they offer a substandard (in their view) vaccine to their citizens?

More for us..
 
Healdplace said:
I am in two minds whether to tell her this news about the AZ vaccine.
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It is not news IMO. It's politically motivated gossip.

There's no way I'd be sharing this with an unsuspecting vulnerable person until it is clarified.

The science on immune response in older people on the AZ jab is that it is very strong - actually better relatively than the others in that immune response was just as good in over 70s as younger subjects.

Here's the figure (from the Lancet):

gr4.jpg
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
Hopefully Germany (& by default the EU) will have shot themselves in the foot with this as how could they offer a substandard (in their view) vaccine to their citizens?

More for us..
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No, it's bad news for everyone.

We need open and honest science and data so people trust vaccines. We're not safe until everyone is safe.

If the EU has less vaccines, or their citizens trust them less, or our citizens trust vaccines less, there's only one winner. He carries a scythe.
 
squirtyflower said:
Thanks for pointing that out.

So Germany are saying the vaccine the EU has ordered is not good for people over 65, yet the EU are blocking the product from leaving the EU?
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Don’t know, is it just Germany, what are other countries saying. Seem to be you are mixing your countries and groups of countries up.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
It is not news IMO. It's politically motivated gossip.

There's no way I'd be sharing this with an unsuspecting vulnerable person until it is clarified.

The science on immune response in older people on the AZ jab is that it is very strong - actually better relatively than the others in that immune response was just as good in over 70s as younger subjects.

Here's the figure (from the Lancet):

gr4.jpg
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That's all very factual and scientific BUT a bloke on Twitter has tweeted that a German newspaper is running a story that Oxford/AZ is shite.
 
squirtyflower said:
Thanks for pointing that out.

So Germany are saying the vaccine the EU has ordered is not good for people over 65, yet the EU are blocking the product from leaving the EU?
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Sorry, I was only joking.
I‘m still none the wiser as to what AZ will supply. It received orders from the Vaccine Alliance, on behalf of the EU and other European countries, but I’m pretty sure that individual countries, including Germany and the Netherlands, placed further orders with AZ of their own. If AZ is not fulfilling any of these order, or only small amounts, there are going to be some understandably angry reactions. As you suggest, though, the publicised positions tonight do not make sense together.
 
Gabriel said:
Sorry, I was only joking.
I‘m still none the wiser as to what AZ will supply. It received orders from the Vaccine Alliance, on behalf of the EU and other European countries, but I’m pretty sure that individual countries, including Germany and the Netherlands, placed further orders with AZ of their own. If AZ is not fulfilling any of these order, or only small amounts, there are going to be some understandably angry reactions. As you suggest, though, the publicised positions tonight do not make sense together.
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I don’t really think any of the EU countries have a right to complain just yet as they’ve not even passed the vaccine as fit to use.
Perhaps when they have given the go ahead they then have the right to complain about the speed of rollout.
 
unicorn said:
It's the youngsters I feel for. My 2 lads are typical, both careers stalled; youngest a barber in Albert Square, eldest just graduated with an IT job offer postponed. No travel, socialising, drinking, music. They'll bounce back, just like Manchester.

I guess you never stop worrying about your children.
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See PM :)
 
squirtyflower said:
Thanks for pointing that out.

So Germany are saying the vaccine the EU has ordered is not good for people over 65, yet the EU are blocking the product from leaving the EU?
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The Germans are saying nothing officially. The leak is that they don't expect it to be certified for over 65s. They still have 50m people under that age. More to the point, they are acting on the EU's behalf whilst the complaint that they are not fulfilling their order is resolved.

We already knew the published studies underrepresented over 65s - less than 6% of the test subjects. Their damned studies really don't look that clever now. Goddammit. However happy we are with the vaccine, it's been a shortcoming of their work. Extremely annoying. It's one reason the vaccine is subject to speculation. They've only themselves to blame, and we have to accept it as buyers, that it doesn't come with the gold seal of approval in terms of data.

Still, leaks are VERY easy. And unconfirmed information is just another form of rumour. We know very little. If Handelsbatt were fed a politically motivated leak, it's an interesting one, as the whole article actually paints a poor picture of their vaccine strategy going forward. It doesn't really let anyone off the hook. It highlights Germany's urgent need as a buyer in some detail, which hardly helps them get a quick cheap deal from others. But the politics are complicated and management of the narrative doesn't always boil down to just dropping something to show yourself in a good light.

As the AZ rebuttal states, they did have a study showing it created antibodies in that age group. But they haven't shown that is enough to provide resistance. Being approved by the UK doesn't really demonstrate anything, as far as I know, no knew data was put in the public domain. So it could have been a stroke of genius or something much less clever.

The next tranch of information can be expected when the EMA rule on certification. There's also a big conference in the US advisory body in a couple of days. Expect loads more on all things vaccine then.
 
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