Coronavirus (2021) thread

[blueparrot]

Thanks for pointing that out.

So Germany are saying the vaccine the EU has ordered is not good for people over 65, yet the EU are blocking the product from leaving the EU?

Don’t know, is it just Germany, what are other countries saying. Seem to be you are mixing your countries and groups of countries up.

 

[squirtyflower]

Don’t know, is it just Germany, what are other countries saying. Seem to be you are mixing your countries and groups of countries up.

That’s just nonsense

 

[Healdplace]

Which vaccine are Israel using?

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

It is not news IMO. It's politically motivated gossip.

There's no way I'd be sharing this with an unsuspecting vulnerable person until it is clarified.

The science on immune response in older people on the AZ jab is that it is very strong - actually better relatively than the others in that immune response was just as good in over 70s as younger subjects.

Here's the figure (from the Lancet):

That's all very factual and scientific BUT a bloke on Twitter has tweeted that a German newspaper is running a story that Oxford/AZ is shite.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Which vaccine are Israel using?

Pfizer. If memory serves me correct Pfizer sent them many doses in exchange for access to data or something along those lines.

 

[blueparrot]

That’s just nonsense

Yes, it is.

 

[Gabriel]

Thanks for pointing that out.

So Germany are saying the vaccine the EU has ordered is not good for people over 65, yet the EU are blocking the product from leaving the EU?

Sorry, I was only joking.
I‘m still none the wiser as to what AZ will supply. It received orders from the Vaccine Alliance, on behalf of the EU and other European countries, but I’m pretty sure that individual countries, including Germany and the Netherlands, placed further orders with AZ of their own. If AZ is not fulfilling any of these order, or only small amounts, there are going to be some understandably angry reactions. As you suggest, though, the publicised positions tonight do not make sense together.

 

[squirtyflower]

Sorry, I was only joking.
I‘m still none the wiser as to what AZ will supply. It received orders from the Vaccine Alliance, on behalf of the EU and other European countries, but I’m pretty sure that individual countries, including Germany and the Netherlands, placed further orders with AZ of their own. If AZ is not fulfilling any of these order, or only small amounts, there are going to be some understandably angry reactions. As you suggest, though, the publicised positions tonight do not make sense together.

I don’t really think any of the EU countries have a right to complain just yet as they’ve not even passed the vaccine as fit to use.
Perhaps when they have given the go ahead they then have the right to complain about the speed of rollout.

 

[cleavers]

It's the youngsters I feel for. My 2 lads are typical, both careers stalled; youngest a barber in Albert Square, eldest just graduated with an IT job offer postponed. No travel, socialising, drinking, music. They'll bounce back, just like Manchester.

I guess you never stop worrying about your children.

See PM :)

 

[Summerbuzz]

Thanks for pointing that out.

So Germany are saying the vaccine the EU has ordered is not good for people over 65, yet the EU are blocking the product from leaving the EU?

The Germans are saying nothing officially. The leak is that they don't expect it to be certified for over 65s. They still have 50m people under that age. More to the point, they are acting on the EU's behalf whilst the complaint that they are not fulfilling their order is resolved.

We already knew the published studies underrepresented over 65s - less than 6% of the test subjects. Their damned studies really don't look that clever now. Goddammit. However happy we are with the vaccine, it's been a shortcoming of their work. Extremely annoying. It's one reason the vaccine is subject to speculation. They've only themselves to blame, and we have to accept it as buyers, that it doesn't come with the gold seal of approval in terms of data.

Still, leaks are VERY easy. And unconfirmed information is just another form of rumour. We know very little. If Handelsbatt were fed a politically motivated leak, it's an interesting one, as the whole article actually paints a poor picture of their vaccine strategy going forward. It doesn't really let anyone off the hook. It highlights Germany's urgent need as a buyer in some detail, which hardly helps them get a quick cheap deal from others. But the politics are complicated and management of the narrative doesn't always boil down to just dropping something to show yourself in a good light.

As the AZ rebuttal states, they did have a study showing it created antibodies in that age group. But they haven't shown that is enough to provide resistance. Being approved by the UK doesn't really demonstrate anything, as far as I know, no knew data was put in the public domain. So it could have been a stroke of genius or something much less clever.

The next tranch of information can be expected when the EMA rule on certification. There's also a big conference in the US advisory body in a couple of days. Expect loads more on all things vaccine then.