Coronavirus (2021) thread

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squirtyflower said:
I agree that it could be bad for us but despite your implication that we have caused this fight
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Not my intention.

I don't know at all the ins and outs. Neither does anyone here.

On the specific leak to the press, I said above: "to leak it to the press in such a way is deeply unethical, and those responsible should be ashamed."

Which is blaming the Germans.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Making this a fight with the EU will be a disaster for everyone.
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There's only one body trying to make this a fight.

The EU has fucked up, they wanted to get an advantage by delaying orders and payment and now they're getting the consequences of that.

And after seeing those consequences, they've tried to discredit the vaccine they can't get hold of and then threatened to block export of it to countries that legally bought it.

This isn't a 6/half dozen argument.
 
worsleyweb said:
indeed - hope it is put to bed quickly tommorow
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I don't want to contribute to a single soul lacking confidence or hope. But it can't really be put to bed finally until we get more data. First more studies. Then ultimately, infection rates and so on in the field.

Until that happens, the lack of data relative to other vaccines will remain a fact, and so the story is liable to bubble up again at any point.

Whether the story is floated for political reasons, or is a fair representation of events - there's only one rebuttal that matters, and that will come from the publication of more data.
 
domalino said:
There's only one body trying to make this a fight.

The EU has fucked up, they wanted to get an advantage by delaying orders and payment and now they're getting the consequences of that.

And after seeing those consequences, they've tried to discredit the vaccine they can't get hold of and then threatened to block export of it to countries that legally bought it.

This isn't a 6/half dozen argument.
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1. The EU has said, and done nothing. This is from Germany.

2. It's complicated. See various comments above about how to judge over 65s efficacy. If the EMA don't approve in over 65s they're doing nothing different ton the US.

3. Even if you think the EU are the devil incarnate, it matters not. We still have to get along with them. In this, and everything else. If we fight, we both lose.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Not my intention.

I don't know at all the ins and outs. Neither does anyone here.

On the specific leak to the press, I said above: "to leak it to the press in such a way is deeply unethical, and those responsible should be ashamed."

Which is blaming the Germans.
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It’s always ze bloody Germans!
 
inchy14 said:
To be fair they come from businesses not individual countries
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Sure, but those countries can slap on an emergency export ban if they want.

I'm not saying that they would be right to, just that there is an absolute imperative to cooperate here. Both ethically and pragmatically.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
1. The EU has said, and done nothing. This is from Germany.

2. It's complicated. See various comments above about how to judge over 65s efficacy. If the EMA don't approve in over 65s they're doing nothing different ton the US.

3. Even if you think the EU are the devil incarnate, it matters not. We still have to get along with them. In this, and everything else. If we fight, we both lose.
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I am fairly sure he’s not a Brexit supporter.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
1. The EU has said, and done nothing. This is from Germany.

2. It's complicated. See various comments above about how to judge over 65s efficacy. If the EMA don't approve in over 65s they're doing nothing different ton the US.

3. Even if you think the EU are the devil incarnate, it matters not. We still have to get along with them. In this, and everything else. If we fight, we both lose.
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But it doesn’t seem as though we are fighting?
We seem to have bought and paid for a vaccine that someone is now threatening to withhold even though they might not want it themselves. Surely that seems a tad unfair.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
1. The EU has said, and done nothing. This is from Germany.

2. It's complicated. See various comments above about how to judge over 65s efficacy. If the EMA don't approve in over 65s they're doing nothing different ton the US.

3. Even if you think the EU are the devil incarnate, it matters not. We still have to get along with them. In this, and everything else. If we fight, we both lose.
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You keep talking about "us" fighting, when the UK has done nothing and will do nothing. We are going to get our vaccine before them because we ordered first, we funded the development and we approved it first. All of those were huge risks, and there is a payoff. It's an agreement between the UK and a private company.

Germany has acted in bad faith from the beginning, or have you already forgotten their side deal with Pfizer that directly contradicted the EU joint agreement for procurement that prohibited such side deals?

In an ideal world I hope everyone gets along over the vaccine, but unfortunately one country is acting in bad faith and no one is going to let British people die by giving vaccines already bought by this country go to the EU to appease Germany.
 
squirtyflower said:
But it doesn’t seem as though we are fighting?
We seem to have bought and paid for a vaccine that someone is now threatening to withhold even though they might not want it themselves. Surely that seems a tad unfair.
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I would hazard a guess that the EU also feel they've been promised it. But like I said, I don't know the ins and outs of it all.
 
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