Deloitte Football Rich List (merged)

[Maly]

I’ve got five hundred quid in cash in my bedside draw, am I a half a thousandth of a millionaire?

With your pension......I’d have you down as a multi-millionaire;)

 

[blue oli]

There is also the wider point that this is a measurement of MCFC and not CFG, when silver lake invested for example was that in CFG ? The wider group would probably sit higher up that table, especially with an apple for apples comparison post our latest figures. I also think going into next year with the impact of COVID on the finances all clubs will see a shrinkage, however the impact on us will be lesser than that on other large clubs.

All I can see is positive in the way the group, and the club are run.

 

[Sir Joe Aguero]

There is also the wider point that this is a measurement of MCFC and not CFG, when silver lake invested for example was that in CFG ? The wider group would probably sit higher up that table, especially with an apple for apples comparison post our latest figures. I also think going into next year with the impact of COVID on the finances all clubs will see a shrinkage, however the impact on us will be lesser than that on other large clubs.

All I can see is positive in the way the group, and the club are run.

We've got the Etihad deal coming to an end. Considering we now own a bunch of clubs through CFG (so further exposure), have been in the CL for 11 seasons straight, and that deal was for both the shirt sponsor AND the stadium naming rights. Could very well get an extra £20+ mil a season for the new deals.

 

[Maldeika]

Spot-on. What Bayern have is essentially disguised owner investment from their sponsors. But it's apparently all within FFP rules which also don't take any account of debt. Barca, Real Madrid, and United now have combined debts of around £2bn (Barca alone have £1bn) But they can all carry on playing football with no consequences. United are still paying huge dividends to the Glazers while they delay payments to their creditors. As you say: "Nothing to see here."

The "owner" investments of Allianz, Adidas and Audi weren't that significant but are mainly put in stones of the Allianz Arena and the Campus. That is why the Allianz Arena is paid for years ahead and frees them of paying off large debts.

Bayern is a big fish when it means commercial income. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe and their partners are mainly manufacturing companies that are big internationally. It is no secret that there is e.g. some big German car manufacturers in rivalry to be sponsor of that big fish in the pond.

I know that it is common for you to look at that "owner investment" but that actually is not what drives this as because of the plurality of private owners is not the "thing". What gives Bayern the main lift is that they are the only big fish in a country with a lot exporting companies.

And then you have to see another page of this - Bayern is hesitant to do crazy things and act without taking big financial risks. That is sometimes frustrating as a fan as like this you do not get some of the juwels on the transfer market - but at the end it might be the right way.

 

[Blueboy73]

The "owner" investments of Allianz, Adidas and Audi weren't that significant but are mainly put in stones of the Allianz Arena and the Campus. That is why the Allianz Arena is paid for years ahead and frees them of paying off large debts.

Bayern is a big fish when it means commercial income. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe and their partners are mainly manufacturing companies that are big internationally. It is no secret that there is e.g. some big German car manufacturers in rivalry to be sponsor of that big fish in the pond.

I know that it is common for you to look at that "owner investment" but that actually is not what drives this as because of the plurality of private owners is not the "thing". What gives Bayern the main lift is that they are the only big fish in a country with a lot exporting companies.

And then you have to see another page of this - Bayern is hesitant to do crazy things and act without taking big financial risks. That is sometimes frustrating as a fan as like this you do not get some of the juwels on the transfer market - but at the end it might be the right way.

Germany may be the biggest economy in Europe but the Bundesliga is small fry compared to the Premier League (EPL) and the the revenue it generates from domestic and overseas broadcasting rights.
When you compare EPL broadcasting revenue with the Bundesliga and the commercial deals that City secure compared to other EPL clubs then contrast and compare these deals against the deals Bayern secure (from companies who just happen to own a significant stake in Bayern) against deals secured by other Bundesliga clubs it looks extremely dubious.
This is against a backdrop of senior figures at Bayern many of whom are convicted criminals constantly sniping against my club over a sustained period of time.
As we say in England people in glass houses should not throw stones.
These "jewels" in the transfer market you refer to are usually Bayern bullying smaller clubs in Germany into selling their best players on the cheap or tapping up players so that they run down their contracts so they can pick up players on the cheap or for nothing.
I've nothing against Bayern fans and found you a great bunch but your club is not known as The German Rags for nothing and personally I think Bayern are as bad if not worse than the Rags and Dippers for underhand dealings, hypocrisy and general arrogance.

 

[blueparrot]

We've got the Etihad deal coming to an end. Considering we now own a bunch of clubs through CFG (so further exposure), have been in the CL for 11 seasons straight, and that deal was for both the shirt sponsor AND the stadium naming rights. Could very well get an extra £20+ mil a season for the new deals.

Been thinking about the Etihad thing. It’s usually around March we start seeing leaked kit rumours. Would have thought we would want next years shirt sponsors tied up for April / May.

 

[Maly]

Germany may be the biggest economy in Europe but the Bundesliga is small fry compared to the Premier League (EPL) and the the revenue it generates from domestic and overseas broadcasting rights.
When you compare EPL broadcasting revenue with the Bundesliga and the commercial deals that City secure compared to other EPL clubs then contrast and compare these deals against the deals Bayern secure (from companies who just happen to own a significant stake in Bayern) against deals secured by other Bundesliga clubs it looks extremely dubious.
This is against a backdrop of senior figures at Bayern many of whom are convicted criminals constantly sniping against my club over a sustained period of time.
As we say in England people in glass houses should not throw stones.
These "jewels" in the transfer market you refer to are usually Bayern bullying smaller clubs in Germany into selling their best players on the cheap or tapping up players so that they run down their contracts so they can pick up players on the cheap or for nothing.
I've nothing against Bayern fans and found you a great bunch but your club is not known as The German Rags for nothing and personally I think Bayern are as bad if not worse than the Rags and Dippers for underhand dealings, hypocrisy and general arrogance.

You should get a round of applause for that my friend

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

The "owner" investments of Allianz, Adidas and Audi weren't that significant but are mainly put in stones of the Allianz Arena and the Campus. That is why the Allianz Arena is paid for years ahead and frees them of paying off large debts.

Bayern is a big fish when it means commercial income. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe and their partners are mainly manufacturing companies that are big internationally. It is no secret that there is e.g. some big German car manufacturers in rivalry to be sponsor of that big fish in the pond.

I know that it is common for you to look at that "owner investment" but that actually is not what drives this as because of the plurality of private owners is not the "thing". What gives Bayern the main lift is that they are the only big fish in a country with a lot exporting companies.

And then you have to see another page of this - Bayern is hesitant to do crazy things and act without taking big financial risks. That is sometimes frustrating as a fan as like this you do not get some of the juwels on the transfer market - but at the end it might be the right way.

I have got no issue with the Bayern business model. It's actually a smart way of getting investment into that club. What bothers me is the unfair way City have been treated over FFP. The sponsorship we had from Etihad for example has been analysed in detail and found to be "fair market value" and yet we were subject to a poisonous witchhunt. It's the double standards from UEFA I can't accept.

 

[WRicko]

The "owner" investments of Allianz, Adidas and Audi weren't that significant but are mainly put in stones of the Allianz Arena and the Campus. That is why the Allianz Arena is paid for years ahead and frees them of paying off large debts.

Bayern is a big fish when it means commercial income. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe and their partners are mainly manufacturing companies that are big internationally. It is no secret that there is e.g. some big German car manufacturers in rivalry to be sponsor of that big fish in the pond.

I know that it is common for you to look at that "owner investment" but that actually is not what drives this as because of the plurality of private owners is not the "thing". What gives Bayern the main lift is that they are the only big fish in a country with a lot exporting companies.

And then you have to see another page of this - Bayern is hesitant to do crazy things and act without taking big financial risks. That is sometimes frustrating as a fan as like this you do not get some of the juwels on the transfer market - but at the end it might be the right way.

I will just quote was it Liverpool or your corrupt chairman ? What was the loosing bid ?

 

[N1985]

Haha fucking rich list my arse.

Owe a billion, bring in £500 million a year.

Turn a profit of £5.60

You're absolutely fucked.

 

[Blueboy73]

You should get a round of applause for that my friend

After the way the convicted criminals on Bayern's board sneered and looked down their noses at us, it must really grate them that Pep Guardiola, arguably the best coach in the world,
had the temerity to walk away from their shining beacon of upstanding morality to join such a small and insignificant club.

 

[Maly]

After the way the convicted criminals on Bayern's board sneered and looked down their noses at us, it must really grate them that Pep Guardiola, arguably the best coach in the world,
had the temerity to walk away from their shining beacon of upstanding morality to join such a small and insignificant club.

Great encore ;)

 

[Blueboy73]

Great encore ;)

Ha ha cheers mate :)
If I was John W Henry or The Glazers I would probably say that's a slam dunk.
Still boils my piss when clubs like Bayern and their G14 mates carry on like they do with complete immunity whilst shit stirring in the background.
I'd like to see someone looking closely into some of their dealings but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Blueboy73]

I have got no issue with the Bayern business model. It's actually a smart way of getting investment into that club. What bothers me is the unfair way City have been treated over FFP. The sponsorship we had from Etihad for example has been analysed in detail and found to be "fair market value" and yet we were subject to a poisonous witchhunt. It's the double standards from UEFA I can't accept.

It's not just UEFA with the double standards though.

 

[Maldeika]

I have got no issue with the Bayern business model. It's actually a smart way of getting investment into that club. What bothers me is the unfair way City have been treated over FFP. The sponsorship we had from Etihad for example has been analysed in detail and found to be "fair market value" and yet we were subject to a poisonous witchhunt. It's the double standards from UEFA I can't accept.

I just do not think that you can compare that business model to Bayern's owners - even if some would like to do so and often do. Bayern has multiple big sponsors, not just Allianz, Audi or Adidas - and all 3 named companies with minority shares and are companies that are fully traded on the stock market - they are responsible to their multiple owners, too, and have comparable sponsoring contracts with other football clubs. It is just not comparable.

It is different to e.g. clubs in Germany like Wolfsburg or Leverkusen that are sponsored to a big part from their parent companies Bayer and Volkswagen.

Bayern's financial success - so not having much debt from the stadium helps - can be mainly explained with the conservative way Bayern does their business and the special situation they have because of their sportal situation in the country - their main competitor for sponsoring contracts aren't the other clubs but the national team. Maybe it helps a lot, too, when you have had a stable team with constant success in the recent seasons, too - without having to blow masses of money (compared to others) into the squad. And the relatively cheap replacement of the former star players.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/transf...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

And that talk about Bayern's cheap buys from other German clubs is bullocks. Look at the starting eleven and when/how they got the players and there qualities then. The only ones that were stars when they bought them were Lewy and Neuer - that is more than 6 years ago - and both weren't that full developed professionals then as they are now. Most have made some steps since they came to Bayern and weren't fully developed.

 

[Blueboy73]

I just do not think that you can compare that business model to Bayern's owners - even if some would like to do so and often do. Bayern has multiple big sponsors, not just Allianz, Audi or Adidas - and all 3 named companies with minority shares and are companies that are fully traded on the stock market - they are responsible to their multiple owners, too, and have comparable sponsoring contracts with other football clubs. It is just not comparable.

It is different to e.g. clubs in Germany like Wolfsburg or Leverkusen that are sponsored to a big part from their parent companies Bayer and Volkswagen.

Bayern's financial success - so not having much debt from the stadium helps - can be mainly explained with the conservative way Bayern does their business and the special situation they have because of their sportal situation in the country - their main competitor for sponsoring contracts aren't the other clubs but the national team. Maybe it helps a lot, too, when you have had a stable team with constant success in the recent seasons, too - without having to blow masses of money (compared to others) into the squad. And the relatively cheap replacement of the former star players.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/transf...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

The difference is that most sponsors pay a premium for international exposure these days and not just domestic exposure.
The Rags for example have a huge shirt sponsorship deal with Chevrolet and you cannot even buy a new Chevrolet in the UK so they're basically paying for international exposure.
The Bundesliga gets nothing like broadcasting revenue or the viewing figures that the EPL gets internationally yet Bayern are getting sponsorship deals comparable with clubs that are gaining far more exposure and are therefore reaching a far bigger audience internationally.
This doesn't add up and when convicted criminals on Bayern's board and their mouthpiece Der Spiegel are constantly sniping and bleating about a club that for the last decade has been the most successful in the most widely broadcasted league in the world it comes across as a bit desperate and hypocritical. It's as if they've got something to hide and are desperately trying to divert attention from themselves.
When you bully other clubs in Germany and tap up players and their agents is it any wonder Bayern are able to recruit "without having to blow masses of money" and recruit "relatively cheap replacements for star players" .
That's nothing to be proud of and just adds to the perception of your club that is held by a significant number of fans that Bayern are basically a bunch of self-entitled, pompous arrogant bullies.

 

[Maly]

I just do not think that you can compare that business model to Bayern's owners - even if some would like to do so and often do. Bayern has multiple big sponsors, not just Allianz, Audi or Adidas - and all 3 named companies with minority shares and are companies that are fully traded on the stock market - they are responsible to their multiple owners, too, and have comparable sponsoring contracts with other football clubs. It is just not comparable.

It is different to e.g. clubs in Germany like Wolfsburg or Leverkusen that are sponsored to a big part from their parent companies Bayer and Volkswagen.

Bayern's financial success - so not having much debt from the stadium helps - can be mainly explained with the conservative way Bayern does their business and the special situation they have because of their sportal situation in the country - their main competitor for sponsoring contracts aren't the other clubs but the national team. Maybe it helps a lot, too, when you have had a stable team with constant success in the recent seasons, too - without having to blow masses of money (compared to others) into the squad. And the relatively cheap replacement of the former star players.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/transf...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

And that talk about Bayern's cheap buys from other German clubs is bullocks. Look at the starting eleven and when/how they got the players and there qualities then. The only ones that were stars when they bought them were Lewy and Neuer - that is more than 6 years ago - and both weren't that full developed professionals then as they are now. Most have made some steps since they came to Bayern and weren't fully developed.

As a Munich fan, do you like the fact there is no competition in the German league, or do you feel that the league is pretty pointless & wish there were 2,3 or 4 other clubs that would frequently win the league?

Which lets be honest, is down to your finances compared with the rest of the league?

 

[Blueboy73]

And that talk about Bayern's cheap buys from other German clubs is bullocks. Look at the starting eleven and when/how they got the players and there qualities then. The only ones that were stars when they bought them were Lewy and Neuer - that is more than 6 years ago - and both weren't that full developed professionals then as they are now. Most have made some steps since they came to Bayern and weren't fully developed.
[/QUOTE]
I've noticed you edited your post after I responded and added this absolute whopper.
Neuer was running his contract down at Schalke and forced their hand to sell him on the cheap and Lewandowski was signed for free from Dortmund after he ran his contract down after he was also tapped up.
Your lot tapped up Boateng from us in 2011 after he stank the place out for 12 months agitating for a move and repeated the trick with Sane more recently colluding with his agent and the national team manager to use the threat of losing his place in the national team as leverage.
So it isn't bollocks, Bayern have got a long track record of tapping up German players and signing them on the cheap or for free.
Arrogant club from top to bottom and after speaking to fans of other German clubs it's clear they are universally despised by every set of fans in Germany.
Players are bound to develop when they join a team that is dominant domestically as has been the case all over the world so to try and claim some kind of credit for this and implying Bayern are special in this regard is also bollocks.

 

[Maldeika]

Neuer originally cost 30 million EUR - but as there were success related bonusses for Schalke in the contract that granted Schalke some millions for every trophy Bayern won the consecutive 5 years he was about 40 million. For a goalkeeper in 2011 with at that time some caps, who had shown sparks in some matches but was still far away from the class he later showed. Do not forget that he would not have been goalkeeper in the national team if Enke would not have taken his life and Adler would not have been injured. He was not the goatkeeper back then - still a prospect.

Even if some fans of conspiracies on this board love to connect the Spiegel with Bayern - it is the last magazine I (as somebody that knows the affiliations of the German press) would connect with FC Bayern. It is probably the magazine that is as much hated by the Bayern officials as by the fans here. But yes - believe that when it connects to your world view - that is more important than real facts today. But what do I know. But I guess blueboy 73 is a fluent German speaker who knows all about German magazines?

Lewandowski wanted to transfer already two years earlier. He was not allowed then as Kagawa was transferred to United. Dortmund did not want to let him go in the next year either when they still could get a transfer sum. But I actually did not want to include Neuer and Lewy into this - that is more than 9 and more than 6 years ago. The argument that Bayern takes the best players from the other Bundesliga teams just does not fit anymore as they are the only players in the starting eleven with such a history. In the recent 6 seasons the best players of the Bundesliga that weren't Bayern players mainly went to England - not to Bayern. And it is just "normal" that a player that does not want to transfer to another country would atleast try to go to the only top club in the respective country.

Bayern is most seasons in the Champions League until late in the competition - has won the last season. They do not have international exposure? Or fans? The thing is that they genuinely stand for a country more than e.g. the English clubs do. That is why the German big brands are first interested to advertise with an internationally famous German brand in the world. When you look at the companies that are club partners it is usually big German brands - not international brands. And if you look at the other big clubs in the Bundesliga you will recognize that (even if they have less exposure internationally) have high commercial revenues compared to their broadcast and stadium revenue, too. A factor might be that the Bundesliga has a far more exposure in German free TV than the EPL has in England.

As a Munich fan, do you like the fact there is no competition in the German league, or do you feel that the league is pretty pointless & wish there were 2,3 or 4 other clubs that would frequently win the league?

Which lets be honest, is down to your finances compared with the rest of the league?

No, it is not just because of the finances. Dortmund e.g. has as much distance in revenue to the other German clubs as Bayern has - but they aren't clear no. 2 in Germany either - especially when they are the only club that had a real summer break before the season with preparation camp etc. That they lose against Bayern or maybe other top teams is ok - but when e.g. in the recent weeks Leipzig, Dortmund or Leverkusen lost to e.g. 17th Mainz, Freiburg, Union Berlin etc. - it is more than just finances. Yes, Bayern should win most of the years because of the higher revenues etc. - but not every year. And that is either explained with the Greatness of this Bayern team - or the Weaknesses of the others - Financial disparities already calculated into this.

I do not like to lose - but yes, I would wish to have a harder fight in some of the years. But I enjoy it, too, when teams that get overhyped by the media badly fail ( I guess I love some media pundits as much as you do) - when it is one of the so called competitors (I like it when clubs like Freiburg, Union Berlin etc. overachieve as underdogs). As much as I love e.g. Liverpool to fail as the club and Klopp are pretty much overhyped in Germany.

But let's see it from another point of view. From the quality your team can have it should usually win the EPL each season with a big margin. But they do not. Is it because of the other teams strenghts or because of your own weaknesses? Maybe Liverpool overachieved the recent two years, but in the years Leicester and Chelsea won you lost the championship not because they were so strong but you showed weaknesses.

 

[Centurions]

Neuer originally cost 30 million EUR - but as there were success related bonusses for Schalke in the contract that granted Schalke some millions for every trophy Bayern won the consecutive 5 years he was about 40 million. For a goalkeeper in 2011 with at that time some caps, who had shown sparks in some matches but was still far away from the class he later showed. Do not forget that he would not have been goalkeeper in the national team if Enke would not have taken his life and Adler would not have been injured. He was not the goatkeeper back then - still a prospect.

Even if some fans of conspiracies on this board love to connect the Spiegel with Bayern - it is the last magazine I (as somebody that knows the affiliations of the German press) would connect with FC Bayern. It is probably the magazine that is as much hated by the Bayern officials as by the fans here. But yes - believe that when it connects to your world view - that is more important than real facts today. But what do I know. But I guess blueboy 73 is a fluent German speaker who knows all about German magazines?

Lewandowski wanted to transfer already two years earlier. He was not allowed then as Kagawa was transferred to United. Dortmund did not want to let him go in the next year either when they still could get a transfer sum. But I actually did not want to include Neuer and Lewy into this - that is more than 9 and more than 6 years ago. The argument that Bayern takes the best players from the other Bundesliga teams just does not fit anymore as they are the only players in the starting eleven with such a history. In the recent 6 seasons the best players of the Bundesliga that weren't Bayern players mainly went to England - not to Bayern. And it is just "normal" that a player that does not want to transfer to another country would atleast try to go to the only top club in the respective country.

Bayern is most seasons in the Champions League until late in the competition - has won the last season. They do not have international exposure? Or fans? The thing is that they genuinely stand for a country more than e.g. the English clubs do. That is why the German big brands are first interested to advertise with an internationally famous German brand in the world. When you look at the companies that are club partners it is usually big German brands - not international brands. And if you look at the other big clubs in the Bundesliga you will recognize that (even if they have less exposure internationally) have high commercial revenues compared to their broadcast and stadium revenue, too. A factor might be that the Bundesliga has a far more exposure in German free TV than the EPL has in England.



No, it is not just because of the finances. Dortmund e.g. has as much distance in revenue to the other German clubs as Bayern has - but they aren't clear no. 2 in Germany either - especially when they are the only club that had a real summer break before the season with preparation camp etc. That they lose against Bayern or maybe other top teams is ok - but when e.g. in the recent weeks Leipzig, Dortmund or Leverkusen lost to e.g. 17th Mainz, Freiburg, Union Berlin etc. - it is more than just finances. Yes, Bayern should win most of the years because of the higher revenues etc. - but not every year. And that is either explained with the Greatness of this Bayern team - or the Weaknesses of the others - Financial disparities already calculated into this.

I do not like to lose - but yes, I would wish to have a harder fight in some of the years. But I enjoy it, too, when teams that get overhyped by the media badly fail ( I guess I love some media pundits as much as you do) - when it is one of the so called competitors (I like it when clubs like Freiburg, Union Berlin etc. overachieve as underdogs). As much as I love e.g. Liverpool to fail as the club and Klopp are pretty much overhyped in Germany.

But let's see it from another point of view. From the quality your team can have it should usually win the EPL each season with a big margin. But they do not. Is it because of the other teams strenghts or because of your own weaknesses? Maybe Liverpool overachieved the recent two years, but in the years Leicester and Chelsea won you lost the championship not because they were so strong but you showed weaknesses.

Hasn't Der Spiegel done pieces on Bayern previously? I could search but don't want to give them the clicks, as a Bayern fan and German you'd have more idea of that I'm guessing.