Political relations between UK-EU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
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mancity2012_eamo said:
Just to be clear from my last answer to you BJ, when I said our lot were talking to the EU, not your lot, I didn’t mean your government weren’t engaging.

I don’t know the level of influence we have in the EU but I would like to think on matters relating to the NIP and primarily the GFA we have more clout than our size would normally dictate.

I do think the relative silence from your PM while surely engaging in the background with the NI Assembly and also us. was very much the correct action and having us talk to whoever in the EU was the diplomatic way to deal with this.

You know my view that this was not brought about by Brexit but the shambles of the EU response has very much made it so. That was an own goal in my view.

There can be no criticism of the British government in their handling of this that I can see.

I do have several other thoughts on the whole affair that I hope to get the time to put together cohesively in response to @mcfc1632
I haven’t read much of this thread today or caught up on local news either as it’s football day and other commitments but I will get my thoughts together on events.
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Fair enough mate and I completely agree.

It seems there’s a very good relationship with Dublin and London these days and both got their heads together in response.

It’s pretty shameful by Brussels and I am pretty shocked at their behaviour.
 
Ban-jani said:
Cant wait for the defence from the usual suspects.
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They are still trying to think up a reason for the EU demanding an audit of the AZ facility in Belgium to ensure that not one single dose of vaccine is being sent out of the EU, while simultaneously demanding that its facilities in the UK send it 75 million doses.
 
smudgedj said:
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FT as well.
 
Ric said:
Not seen so many right-wingers this excited since Chelsea won the Champions League ;)
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Not seen so many left wingers retreat since the Germans crossed into the Soviet Union in 1941.


(No that doesn’t make everyone else nazis)
 
Ban-jani said:
It was more the winter and bad German tactics than the retreat being tactical.
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I think the Soviet people can be credited with appreciating how challenging their winters could be.

You might want to Google ‘scorched earth’ before making piss-poor comments like that.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Was busy yesterday evening and missed all the fun and games - I have 30 pages to catch up.

I may have missed all sorts of events of yesterday evening - but I would be interested in your take on the actions of the EU last night, seemingly without even showing Ireland the respect of being involved in decision making?

I know that you have previously disagreed with my views that the EU have not always acted through altruism and solely a desire to uphold the GFA. I have suggested that the EU essentially 'opportunistically used' the border issue and I have previously mentioned that Ireland might not find themselves at the 'heart' of EU priorities once Brexit has been done.

In the last days I was reading an article, in the Brussels Times I think, that commented on the acceptance by Ireland that they will have to progress with 'harmonisation' of Corporation Tax - and then you have this action last night. Just feels to me that Ireland might be in for some less welcome EU attention.

Anyway - just interested in your take on things
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I’ll try and give you an honest answer to all you bring up. I haven’t really kept up with news today but I think I’m informed enough to give you a general response.

I believe the EU have really scored an own goal here.
I don’t believe that this was an issue caused by Brexit and should have been kept separate and between AZ and the EU.
The shambolic handling of this by someone or someones possibly above their pay grades has well and truly made it a Brexit issue.

That’s a big mistake.
I do believe that as you have stressed as one of your reasons for supporting Brexit, the bureaucracy involved in a time of crisis is a drawback to acting quickly.
Not that I’m making Covid out to be a positive for Boris and his government. He got off to a very slow start in his initial response. You’ve been hit hard, but the timing of this vaccine roll out issue is a shot in the arm (sorry) for Brexit in general.
I’m putting this together quickly and I really do hope that statement doesn’t come across as flippant.

Threatening to invoke Article 16 was a bad bad decision and I believe like @BobKowalski that it was never going to happen.

I believe your government acted correctly and am sure communications between yourselves, ourselves and NI would have been going on in the background and the correct diplomatic response was for Martin and Coveney to raise their concerns to the EU.

It is being reported here that Martin made a very strong communication to the EU, possibly Barnier, I don’t know, but RTE news reports through Coveney is that it was a regrettable mistake by the EU and is confident it will not happen again.

My concern, apart from the Covid issue, where the AZ vaccine is the cornerstone of our vaccination program, is that this balls up is exact the kind of thing that the DUP would seek exploit further for their own purposes.
You see NI as effectively being used as a pawn by the EU. There’s no doubt someone messed up big time but ultimately I don’t believe we will allow that happen. Do we have that clout?
Well in matters regarding the NIP and more importantly the GFA I would like to believe, Yes, we have far more of a say than our size would normally dictate.
However I think internally or locally on the island of Ireland as a whole we have far less power over an emboldened DUP, who I do not believe ever had the best interests of the GFA at heart.

So yes, this was a much bigger mistake than, whoever in the EU that called it, thought. Or didn’t think

Regarding the corporate tax issue, they’ve been trying to press us on that for quite a while and I’ve no doubt we will have compromises to make for years to come within this union, but ideologically on the benefits to my country, Ireland, I see membership as far more beneficial in the long run than you do for Britain had you remained.

I think although this was a fuck up, there is no sugar coating it, from an Irish point of view, whereas you may be right with your final statement, I do think perhaps as much for our relationship with yourselves and NI as anything else, that we may well have more of a say than normally expected.

Moving on from this, we were promised 600,000 AZ vaccines by February 15th and now expecting to get perhaps 300,000 a week earlier.
So a compromise. We get to start the program earlier and keep the lines of negotiations open and cordial.

Not the EU’s finest hour, but I think much of the arguments I’ve read in here over this Covid issue and contractual law etc. have taken over the whole Brexit issue and the point scoring is still going on which really adds no genuine information to the thread.

In general I think Covid occupying the airwaves for a while suits Johnson and whoever is keeping him quiet is giving good advice.
 
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