Political relations between UK-EU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
mcfc1632 said:
Personally, it will be refreshing to be part of a Trading Bloc that is not seeking to become a supranational superpower and requiring agreement to full integration by its members
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It will indeed, fancy just buying and selling stuff without paying for the privilege, I think it may catch on.
 
@BluePhil8 said:
Get ready for more of this, the destabilisation will continue with their attempts to essentially annex Scotland through that fucking stooge.
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And independent Scotland will have the biggest deficit in the EU, i am not entirely sure the EU would accept them, never mind annex them.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I’ll try and give you an honest answer to all you bring up. I haven’t really kept up with news today but I think I’m informed enough to give you a general response.

I believe the EU have really scored an own goal here.
I don’t believe that this was an issue caused by Brexit and should have been kept separate and between AZ and the EU.
The shambolic handling of this by someone or someones possibly above their pay grades has well and truly made it a Brexit issue.

That’s a big mistake.
I do believe that as you have stressed as one of your reasons for supporting Brexit, the bureaucracy involved in a time of crisis is a drawback to acting quickly.
Not that I’m making Covid out to be a positive for Boris and his government. He got off to a very slow start in his initial response. You’ve been hit hard, but the timing of this vaccine roll out issue is a shot in the arm (sorry) for Brexit in general.
I’m putting this together quickly and I really do hope that statement doesn’t come across as flippant.

Threatening to invoke Article 16 was a bad bad decision and I believe like @BobKowalski that it was never going to happen.

I believe your government acted correctly and am sure communications between yourselves, ourselves and NI would have been going on in the background and the correct diplomatic response was for Martin and Coveney to raise their concerns to the EU.

It is being reported here that Martin made a very strong communication to the EU, possibly Barnier, I don’t know, but RTE news reports through Coveney is that it was a regrettable mistake by the EU and is confident it will not happen again.

My concern, apart from the Covid issue, where the AZ vaccine is the cornerstone of our vaccination program, is that this balls up is exact the kind of thing that the DUP would seek exploit further for their own purposes.
You see NI as effectively being used as a pawn by the EU. There’s no doubt someone messed up big time but ultimately I don’t believe we will allow that happen. Do we have that clout?
Well in matters regarding the NIP and more importantly the GFA I would like to believe, Yes, we have far more of a say than our size would normally dictate.
However I think internally or locally on the island of Ireland as a whole we have far less power over an emboldened DUP, who I do not believe ever had the best interests of the GFA at heart.

So yes, this was a much bigger mistake than, whoever in the EU that called it, thought. Or didn’t think

Regarding the corporate tax issue, they’ve been trying to press us on that for quite a while and I’ve no doubt we will have compromises to make for years to come within this union, but ideologically on the benefits to my country, Ireland, I see membership as far more beneficial in the long run than you do for Britain had you remained.

I think although this was a fuck up, there is no sugar coating it, from an Irish point of view, whereas you may be right with your final statement, I do think perhaps as much for our relationship with yourselves and NI as anything else, that we may well have more of a say than normally expected.

Moving on from this, we were promised 600,000 AZ vaccines by February 15th and now expecting to get perhaps 300,000 a week earlier.
So a compromise. We get to start the program earlier and keep the lines of negotiations open and cordial.

Not the EU’s finest hour, but I think much of the arguments I’ve read in here over this Covid issue and contractual law etc. have taken over the whole Brexit issue and the point scoring is still going on which really adds no genuine information to the thread.

In general I think Covid occupying the airwaves for a while suits Johnson and whoever is keeping him quiet is giving good advice.
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talk about shooting themselves in the foot. An indication perhaps on how much pressure there is to deliver that she handled this in such an incompetently aggressive manner. Should have been kept as an internal discussion between AZ and the EU. It takes a special kind of fuck up to make Johnson look statesmanlike and competent. TBF his vaccine team look like they have played a blinder in procurement. Took risks but they have acted decisively and it has paid off. Hope Ireland catches up soon :-)
 
Ban-jani said:
And independent Scotland will have the biggest deficit in the EU, i am not entirely sure the EU would accept them, never mind annex them.
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Why do we yawn? | Library of Congress
 
Good of Liz Truss to finally come clean as she accepts Brexit has imposed trade barriers on British companies, says they were always clear it would. That last bit must have been on the inside of the bus :)
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Lol.
What's even more amusing though, is that Napoleon over in La Belle France
declared on Friday that the Astra vaccine is 'Quasi ineffective.' Germany
said similar. So we get the two biggest members of their club rubbishing
it, yet the club screams about how unjust it is them not receiving it.
Pantomimes like this are a feature of bloated bureaucracy,
I don't think Euroscepticism over there will diminish somehow.
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"Give us the share of the vaccine we're publicly saying doesn't work or we'll create a border that affects one of our own members!"

There's something quite wrong with our friends.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Whilst the focus of this thread is the relations between the EU and UK following Brexit - the situation is also impacted by how relationships develop between the EU and other countries - Ireland and France are important examples.

It is interesting that the EU has caused such frustrations across the 27 members with the incompetence of their vaccine procurement and management of rollout - and there is no way that they were ever going to distract effectively by their aggression towards the UK and AZ.

This article in the Irish Times I guess is typical:

Vaccine fiasco plays into Johnson's hands - Independent.ie

A couple of extracts:

"Brussels was determined to force AstraZeneca to its knees at the start of the week but by the end of it, it was the European Union which was left humiliated.

Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, is facing calls to resign amid accusations of a "vaccine nationalism" and fierce criticism in her home country of Germany."

"Her decision to trigger Article 16 of the Brexit treaty's Northern Irish protocol achieved the once unimaginable feat of uniting an unimpressed Michel Barnier, Taoiseach Micheál Martin and British prime minister Boris Johnson against her.

Ms von der Leyen ordered a U-turn late on Friday night and blamed the crisis on "an oversight", but the damage was done. Brussels had spiralled out of control, turning its own member states against it and ignoring their instructions.

It should have been very different. How had Ms von der Leyen managed to turn a week that should have been a crowning moment for her administration into such an unmitigated disaster?"
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‘An oversight’ is not ordering enough vaccine. Ordering a hard border in Ireland is gross incompetence. No way are the people going to re-elect her next election.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think the Soviet people can be credited with appreciating how challenging their winters could be.

You might want to Google ‘scorched earth’ before making piss-poor comments like that.
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Just seen you add that that last line on.

First off it was a joke to begin with, 2nd of all I really don’t know what point you are making with “scorched Earth”.

Thirdly, you must have been pissed to get so angry at a wee joke in relation to what Ric said.
 
Ban-jani said:
Just seen you add that that last line on.

First off it was a joke to begin with, 2nd of all I really don’t know what point you are making with “scorched Earth”.

Thirdly, you must have been pissed to get so angry at a wee joke in relation to what Ric said.
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It's like being upset over the Nazi's being bombed in Berlin. The Soviets weren't exactly saints themselves prior to Barbarossa. It's astonishing how many people forget what they also did to the Polish, Lithuanians, Finns etc.

It was a United v Liverpool situation, who do you support as a Blue? Whoever helps us win the title, I guess.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Trusting Ursula was never going to play out well, they'll need to bin her and
bring in someone at least half competent.
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Still have a feeling she'll see out her full term. EU doesn't have a habit of getting rid of incompetent leaders. Makes them look bad to the rest of the world.
 
bluethrunthru said:
well fancy that

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Firms 'stampede' to set up in the EU following Brexit - report

The London Economic - The Netherlands British Chamber of Commerce said they have been working “night and day” on inquiries- News
www.thelondoneconomic.com www.thelondoneconomic.com
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There will obviously be movement both ways to suit businesses as they feel their way to what will be best for them.

Nearly 1,500 firms from the EU itself (and more from elsewhere) have planned to set up offices in Britain in the last few years.

This will continue both ways for a few years yet.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Still have a feeling she'll see out her full term. EU doesn't have a habit of getting rid of incompetent leaders. Makes them look bad to the rest of the world.
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You're probably right, but as for avoiding making them look bad to the rest of the world, after this debacle that'll be a hard sell, and negotiation ain't exactly their strong point;)
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
There will obviously be movement both ways to suit businesses as they feel their way to what will be best for them.

Nearly 1,500 firms from the EU itself (and more from elsewhere) have planned to set up offices in Britain in the last few years.

This will continue both ways for a few years yet.
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Funny how one side of the argument only ever gets mentioned by the same people. I wonder if they even bothered googling how many European businesses are setting up in the UK before posting the original article.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
It's like being upset over the Nazi's being bombed in Berlin. The Soviets weren't exactly saints themselves prior to Barbarossa. It's astonishing how many people forget what they also did to the Polish, Lithuanians, Finns etc.

It was a United v Liverpool situation, who do you support as a Blue? Whoever helps us win the title, I guess.
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The funny thing is I wasn’t making a defence or attack on any of them, it was merely a joke.

But yeah, you are correct, the USSR wasn’t quite at Nazi Germany levels for atrocity but it wasn’t a million miles away and the red army sought revenge on anyone in their way on the road to Berlin.

Terrible time, the worst ever in European history.
 
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