Calling all Tories. Why do you Tory?

[metalblue]

For me it’s more it needs adjustment every now and again to make sure it doesn’t go too far out of control and too much wealth gets concentrated in too few.

And in theory this is what our tax system allows for (although needs regular review so agree with you). Unfortunately when it comes to taxation those with huge wealth tend to be very good at keeping it!

 

[BobKowalski]

So based on the above how is it fair to remove private schools? I can afford to send my kid to a private school but others can’t. Well I’ve monetised my talents better than them so can afford to....so it is fair right?

I don’t care where people send their kids. Their money, they can do what they like. But if that kid is a thick ****, coasting off his parents money and getting better opportunities than a bright kid with no parents of means, then I have a problem.

The talent pool that we draw from in terms of law, politics, media etc is too shallow, because we favour public school over state school, social class over talent.

To repeat:

‘A society that maximises the talents of its people is surely a healthier and more productive one.’

As a country we do not maximise the talents of its people. In short, too many well educated thick cunts.

 

[meltonblue]

And in theory this is what our tax system allows for (although needs regular review so agree with you). Unfortunately when it comes to taxation those with huge wealth tend to be very good at keeping it!

Indeed!

Even with that though, ultimately it still needs a bit of a reset from time to time.

 

[metalblue]

I don’t care where people send their kids. Their money, they can do what they like. But if that kid is a thick ****, coasting off his parents money and getting better opportunities than a bright kid with no parents of means, then I have a problem.

The talent pool that we draw from in terms of law, politics, media etc is too shallow, because we favour public school over state school, social class over talent.

To repeat:

‘A society that maximises the talents of its people is surely a healthier and more productive one.’

As a country we do not maximise the talents of its people. In short, too many well educated thick cunts.

Ok. So really the answer is to raise the bar of all the state schools and learn from how private and grammar schools operate (funding and the such) rather than close private and state schools (and if we have great state education they will naturally go anyway). So given we agree on keeping them, why is the left so against them?

 

[meltonblue]

I don’t care where people send their kids. Their money, they can do what they like. But if that kid is a thick ****, coasting off his parents money and getting better opportunities than a bright kid with no parents of means, then I have a problem.

The talent pool that we draw from in terms of law, politics, media etc is too shallow, because we favour public school over state school, social class over talent.

To repeat:

‘A society that maximises the talents of its people is surely a healthier and more productive one.’

As a country we do not maximise the talents of its people. In short, too many well educated thick cunts.

I went to a grammar school. It was a mix of kids from the local area (like me) and then boarders who paid huge amounts to go. The boarders didn’t have to pass the entrance exam to get in.

Well educated thick cunts is a very good description of most of them!

 

[blue for life]

so why does that make you a tory?
my daughter does all that and shes a labour voter

Exactly. Why do Tories think hard work is theirs to own. Got no time for that attitude.

 

[Rascal]

For some reason the right like to see equality as being Equality of outcome, it is not it is Equality of Opportunity.

Everybody regardless should have the same equality of opportunity and then you may actually have a meritocracy rather than the sham meritocracy that we see under inequality of opportunity. There is nothing meritous in getting a top job if you have a head start in life, there is a merit in getting a top job if you have do not have a head start in life. The problem is too few who dont have the head start ever have the chance to become meritous. The top jobs are reserved for an elite, an old school tie network who have got the job by deem of inequality in opportunity.

If we want everyone to succeed then equality of opportunity is a must, it then leads to the each according to his ability , each according to his needs and society based on fairness and equity just like my fellow comrade and ex-roty Metalblue desires.

I have no problem with private schooling, i would make all schooling better than private schooling and it would die a natural death as it only exists to further inequality of opportunity, once that inequality is erased, then there is no need for the schools, because everyone gets an education suitable to their ability.

That then will be good for democracy, as we would no longer have a narrow cabal of people running the country and we might actually have some really bright kid from a Salford council estate as PM rather than an Eton muppet and his gang of cartoon caricatures, cactus plants and frozen paving slabs.

 

[Ban-jani]

which led directly to todays housing crisis

Housing crisis came well after this time and it’s a result, imo, of population growth vs building, rather than the ownership of property changing hands.

Personally, owning your own house gives you a sense of pride that’s hard to put into words.

Personally we should be focusing on promotion of brown field redevelopment and trying not to significantly increase the country’s population, through obviously moral means.

 

[Rascal]

You can ask the same question to any person re whatever party they vote for. Is it not the individual's choice who they vote for, without having to explain their choice?

I wasn't asking who they voted for, I was asking why they voted Tory. If you ask somebody why they vote the way they do, you can sometimes see they are voting for the wrong party. That is why I asked what people's beliefs were, then you can frame them into where they actually stand on the political compass and how they vote correlate's with how they think. I am not trying to say anybody is right or wrong in how they vote, that is their own personal choice of course.

It is 2 very different questions though.

I can do the same for other parties of course, but as I have already made the reasons why I am a socialist on here countless times I would only be repeating myself.

I think it has been an interesting exercise, if you challenge people as to why they think, it makes them think rather than acting blindly. For a democracy i believe it is really important that we do think rather than just act. Plus you never know, there might be a lightbulb moment for me and tomorrow I will be down Primark buying an I love Bojo tank top.

 

[BobKowalski]

Ok. So really the answer is to raise the bar of all the state schools and learn from how private and grammar schools operate (funding and the such) rather than close private and state schools (and if we have great state education they will naturally go anyway). So given we agree on keeping them, why is the left so against them?

On Grammar Schools it was Thatcher that pretty much killed them off. Too many Tory voters with means didn’t like bright Johnny from the Council Estate getting in ahead of their thick brat.

When you have means, then social mobility is a threat. Better by far to let money determine who gets a better education. Fuck talent. Bit like Johnson and his ‘Fuck business’, which ironically is the one promise he has delivered on.

Private schools suck opportunity out of the system for everyone else, that is why people are hostile. It churns out well educated thick cunts who in turn employ well educated thick cunts. They are like Japanese knotweed.

 

[metalblue]

I went to a grammar school. It was a mix of kids from the local area (like me) and then boarders who paid huge amounts to go. The boarders didn’t have to pass the entrance exam to get in.

Well educated thick cunts is a very good description of most of them!

And it was selective right? So By thick cunts do you mean lacking in common sense?

 

[west didsblue]

so why does that make you a tory?
my daughter does all that and shes a labour voter

I used to have a 50 inch TV but changed it for a 70 inch. Can I vote Tory now do you think?

 

[denislawsbackheel]

And it was selective right? So By thick cunts do you mean lacking in common sense?

Many kids at public schools are thick as mince.
This is demonstrated by the number that currently constitute the Tory party in government.

 

[jimharri]

I wasn't asking who they voted for, I was asking why they voted Tory. If you ask somebody why they vote the way they do, you can sometimes see they are voting for the wrong party. That is why I asked what people's beliefs were, then you can frame them into where they actually stand on the political compass and how they vote correlate's with how they think. I am not trying to say anybody is right or wrong in how they vote, that is their own personal choice of course.

It is 2 very different questions though.

I can do the same for other parties of course, but as I have already made the reasons why I am a socialist on here countless times I would only be repeating myself.

I think it has been an interesting exercise, if you challenge people as to why they think, it makes them think rather than acting blindly. For a democracy i believe it is really important that we do think rather than just act. Plus you never know, there might be a lightbulb moment for me and tomorrow I will be down Primark buying an I love Bojo tank top.

Read the opening part of my post again. I was referring to people having to explain their choice, not necessarily asking who they voted for (which is no one's concern but theirs). Your opening post asked "why you Tory". That's what I was referring to. Not asking folk who they voted for. If you misunderstood the gist of my post, my apologies.

 

[Ban-jani]

Many kids at public schools are thick as mince.
This is demonstrated by the number that currently constitute the Tory party in government.

Ironically, and the Labour Party.

 

[Rascal]

Private schools suck opportunity out of the system for everyone else, that is why people are hostile. It churns out well educated thick cunts who in turn employ well educated thick cunts. They are like Japanese knotweed.

Why do you think Gove was a fan of rote learning?

It is easy to learn a date, it is harder to explain what the date is all about.

A rote learner can write the Battle of Jutland happened in 1916 and be 100% correct, pass all exams and get a place at Oxford and be considered well educated.

An educated person can explain the significance of the Battle of Jutland and work as a binman.

Both are considered well educated but the rote learning suits those of limited ability as it churns out automatons unable to think critically and evaluate what they have been taught.

 

[metalblue]

On Grammar Schools it was Thatcher that pretty much killed them off. Too many Tory voters with means didn’t like bright Johnny from the Council Estate getting in ahead of their thick brat.

When you have means, then social mobility is a threat. Better by far to let money determine who gets a better education. Fuck talent. Bit like Johnson and his ‘Fuck business’, which ironically is the one promise he has delivered on.

Private schools suck opportunity out of the system for everyone else, that is why people are hostile. It churns out well educated thick cunts who in turn employ well educated thick cunts. They are like Japanese knotweed.

It really doesn’t matter who did what back in the day what matters is now. Labour does not believe in grammar schools/selective education. Nothing limits social mobility than forcing kids to go to failing state schools.

Now I think our education system needs a full makeover - kids tend to be disruptive/truant/ difficult because they are bored. They want to be a plumber they don’t give too shits about learning algebra- but they need to learn maths. Teach them how to create and invoice, simple accounting for their business, how to calculate how much copper pipe they need, how a compression valve works and so on and so forth but above all else teach them how to plumb and save them 2 years at college- they could be earning and paying tax, they’re enjoying school and going and aren’t getting into trouble. Everyone wins

 

[metalblue]

For some reason the right like to see equality as being Equality of outcome, it is not it is Equality of Opportunity.

Everybody regardless should have the same equality of opportunity and then you may actually have a meritocracy rather than the sham meritocracy that we see under inequality of opportunity. There is nothing meritous in getting a top job if you have a head start in life, there is a merit in getting a top job if you have do not have a head start in life. The problem is too few who dont have the head start ever have the chance to become meritous. The top jobs are reserved for an elite, an old school tie network who have got the job by deem of inequality in opportunity.

If we want everyone to succeed then equality of opportunity is a must, it then leads to the each according to his ability , each according to his needs and society based on fairness and equity just like my fellow comrade and ex-roty Metalblue desires.

I have no problem with private schooling, i would make all schooling better than private schooling and it would die a natural death as it only exists to further inequality of opportunity, once that inequality is erased, then there is no need for the schools, because everyone gets an education suitable to their ability.

That then will be good for democracy, as we would no longer have a narrow cabal of people running the country and we might actually have some really bright kid from a Salford council estate as PM rather than an Eton muppet and his gang of cartoon caricatures, cactus plants and frozen paving slabs.

Fuck me Russ I actually agree with you word for word!

 

[meltonblue]

And it was selective right? So By thick cunts do you mean lacking in common sense?

Not for the boarders. They didn’t have to take any exam. For a lot of them, they would have passed it anyway though.

It was really obvious those that wouldn’t though. Felt sorry for them (well, those that were likeable!) as they struggled even more the first few years. Not all of them thought their parents were sending them to boarding school solely for educational reasons either...

 

[metalblue]

Not for the boarders. They didn’t have to take any exam. For a lot of them, they would have passed it anyway though.

It was really obvious those that wouldn’t though. Felt sorry for them (well, those that were likeable!) as they struggled even more the first few years. Not all of them thought their parents were sending them to boarding school solely for educational reasons either...

Absolutely mate, private schools will always exist for the perceived social status but speaking from experience the majority of parents sending their kids to one are making sacrifices to send them there and only doing so because the local state school is wank. And you know what those kids are the lucky ones, the unlucky ones are the kids that still have to go to said state school.

So given it will be a longer journey to get state schools to a level of excellence let’s in the meantime make school fees payable ahead of tax making the option of going to one more accessible for a lot more parents without needing full bursaries and the such. You could only disagree with that on idealogical reasons.