Political relations between UK-EU

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bluethrunthru said:
what will their view be in 6 - 10 years time when Australia and Canada want to start making rules and insisting that the other members follow them? When Japan start wanting to issue quality controls on foodstuffs and so on? Will that be another bloc there is a 20 year campaign to leave? Eventually you run out of trading blocs and have to come to terms with the fact that you are the snarky cunts who wants to have your cake and eat it and that constant arguing to make our economy smaller means nobody wants us anyway? Maybe we should start our own bloc now? Oh wait we can't we have already hived off NI and Gibraltar ........ we will never learm
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So you’re argument for not joining is that you are worried we will end up with another EU type institution? An institution you actually voted to remain in?

Ok.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Now I'm willing to bet, and the talks start in Spring, that this will be yet
another swift process, and that you will be on here saying, 'Yeah buts.'
I know this for an absolute cast iron certainty, because it's an easy process that we've been watching from you and yours. Nissan, which you must have spent half your life talking down and regaling us with little snips and quotes, doesn't appear to have cooled the fanaticism, and that's just one of the probably now dozens, of doom scenarios that failed to materialise.
I'll give you £50 quid if the deal isn't finalised within 18 months.
Fancy a bet?

*Edit, make it a ton if you like ;)
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Actually you might want to hold off on that bet mate. There are conflicts in our brexit deal that will take some working through- obviously Canada managed to align their trade agreements successfully however we’ve seen what a malicious and vindictive bunch the EU are over recents days so I think we might have a dog of a time of it.
 
metalblue said:
Actually you might want to hold off on that bet mate. There are conflicts in our brexit deal that will take some working through- obviously Canada managed to align their trade agreements successfully however we’ve seen what a malicious and vindictive bunch the EU are over recents days so I think we might have a dog of a time of it.
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I guess that unlike the vaccine fuck up the EU might be on stronger grounds in holding us to whatever is in the Brexit deal we signed up to that might conflict with our efforts to join the CPTPP. And that would be less a case of them being malicious and vindictive and more a case of upholding the agreement?
 
bluethrunthru said:
Does seem odd that they champion leaving a trade bloc that lives over the road so we can free ourselves of its rules and regs and further champion joining another trade bloc thats on the other side of the world and signing up to its rules and regs - and thats what Brexit was about?
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They'll be happy and sign up to anything as long as this agreement doesn't include Freedom of Movement
 
More detail on the security issues in NI. At some point though we are going to have to accept that this is a consequence of choices made by the UK and specifically the treaties signed with the EU.

At some point we have to own the outcomes of our decisions not just moan about them. Nothing happening today happened by chance, they are all deliberate choices.

www.theguardian.com

Northern Ireland suspends Brexit checks amid safety fears for port staff

Decision came after council withdrew 12 staff at Larne following reports of ‘menacing behaviour’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Gives us a glimpse of where the freight is going...as always trade takes the path of least resistance where possible.

‘Irish gov stats: In January 17,500 trucks required 760,000 import declarations — more than 43 per vehicle. Shipments with France have doubled while those with Britain halved.’

www.politico.eu

UK-Ireland freight tumbles as Brexit bites

Trucks need average of 43 documents each to gain entry from Britain.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
Back to the fish, BBC running a report last night.

‘What’s happening to food exports? Coming up on BBC News at 10. Bridport, Dorset fishing business owner Charlie Samway describes new 26 step process to export back across Channel what they catch in it... adamant a month in, having prepared extensively, these aren’t “teething problems..”

Govt suggestion these are “teething problem” did not go down well here nor at clients Waterdance at Brixham harbour (a firm visited by PM in August 2019 and promised “no unnecessary form-filling”) there they said it was “insulting” as value of catch falls a third...

“every business has to pay the bills. And ultimately, if we see these issues persist, then taking boats to land into foreign ports is something that could realistically be happening with fishing businesses here in southwest of England, its not something we want to do”.‘
 
BobKowalski said:
More detail on the security issues in NI. At some point though we are going to have to accept that this is a consequence of choices made by the UK and specifically the treaties signed with the EU.

At some point we have to own the outcomes of our decisions not just moan about them. Nothing happening today happened by chance, they are all deliberate choices.

www.theguardian.com

Northern Ireland suspends Brexit checks amid safety fears for port staff

Decision came after council withdrew 12 staff at Larne following reports of ‘menacing behaviour’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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An official united Ireland is only a matter of time. We are starting to see the beginning of loyalist paramilitary getting their act together. Johnson threw NI under the bus to get his deal done.
 
Vic said:
I did say last week that given the demand from EU restaurants for UK shellfish - I saw Dublin prawns on the menu in Menorca - there was some incentive for the EU to sort this, but (a) Covid means restaurant demand is not there (perhaps we should not have got all the vaccine....) and (b) there will be EU shellfish producers looking to expand their business.
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I think shellfish imports from non EU countries into the EU have always been banned. I guess no one checked the small print on the membership rules.

To be honest, having waded through a lot of the Hammond interview the UK had no grasp or clue on any aspect of Brexit, all they were good at was digging a deep bloody hole for themselves and the rest of us.

Johnson is just a continuation of that glorious tradition in not understanding what we have signed up to, hence all that guff about ‘no checks’ between GB and NI and ‘no unnecessary form filling’.
 
bluethrunthru said:
care to explain why rather than leave what you think are enigmatic thoughts but are probably just bullshit because you have no real meaningful observation to make?
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Well - TBF, I thought it was a late night post after a few too many beers - so not worth the effort to reply to.

How else do you explain someone getting all agitated about what Australia and Canada might to at some future point or about all sorts of convoluted imaginings about the SE Asian countries rushing to enter into political integration pacts with Japan.

If you were actually not pissed then I can only assume that such convoluted imaginings provide you with some form of defence/coping mechanism.

Perhaps the realism has hit home that the root cause of Brexit and the future fractures that are going to occur across the EU are simply down to the ideologues who basically hijacked a major trading bloc to service their dreams of a European Superstate.

Maybe the penny has finally dropped for you and rather than accept that fact you would rather project onto fanciful and pretty embarrassing speculation.
 
journolud said:
I guess that unlike the vaccine fuck up the EU might be on stronger grounds in holding us to whatever is in the Brexit deal we signed up to that might conflict with our efforts to join the CPTPP. And that would be less a case of them being malicious and vindictive and more a case of upholding the agreement?
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If it was based solely on a trade agreement I would agree with you however the EU is as much a political beast as a trading bloc.

We need to see where the contentious/ conflicting areas might be between the EU deal with the UK and the UK deal with the CPTPP before jumping to any conclusions about how pragmatic the EU will be on this. The EU also has bilateral agreements with many of the CPTPP signatories already so let’s see how “oven ready” this one might actually be.

And remember deals cut both ways - this could (via brexit) give the EU better access particularly with half an eye on China and/or the US joining down the line. I’m sure the numbers are being crunched as much in Brussels as they are in London.
 
metalblue said:
We know for a fact the CPTPP is very different to the EU today - it is a trading bloc with no courts and no inherent political structure. And apparently it has zero ambition for any of that either, it just wants to remain a simple trading bloc rather than the “project” the EU has become.

If the EU had remained a common market I doubt we would even have had a referendum let alone left.

Anyway I think the biggest hurdle is the conflicting aspects of joining CPTPP and the brexit deal still need to be figured out. Long way to go, more details needed like you say, but on the surface it seems a sensible move, one I’m sure even the most ardent of remainders could get behind as well
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There are 2 'elephants in the room' that Remainers have no answer to and are desperate to avoid the thread considering:

1) If the EU had remained a common market I doubt we would even have had a referendum let alone left.

2) If the Remainer led government of May/Hammond had commenced planning for a Brexit outcome that saw the UK leave the SM and CU (as promised my the Remain campaign) then we would have had 4 years in which to identify post Brexit issues and plan for their management. Such planning would have resulted in mitigating actions being taken, required policies produced or contingency plans prepared. Even the current issues (which are nothing like the Remainer promised apocalypse) are, inconveniently, the fault of Remainers not committing to the UK genuinely leaving the EU

These are inconvenient truths perhaps - but no amount of Remainer denial or bluster can actual affect the fact that they are indeed the truth - facts and not opinion
 
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bluethrunthru said:
what will their view be in 6 - 10 years time when Australia and Canada want to start making rules and insisting that the other members follow them? When Japan start wanting to issue quality controls on foodstuffs and so on? Will that be another bloc there is a 20 year campaign to leave? Eventually you run out of trading blocs and have to come to terms with the fact that you are the snarky cunts who wants to have your cake and eat it and that constant arguing to make our economy smaller means nobody wants us anyway? Maybe we should start our own bloc now? Oh wait we can't we have already hived off NI and Gibraltar ........ we will never learm
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If we join the bloc and as a whole the Bloc wants to work together to set up a uniform set of standards on things such as food standards for example, I would be perfectly happy.

If however the bloc starts to call itself “The united States of Asia-Pacifica“ and demands its own anthem, passport, foreign ministry, and Supreme Court , with all of the above having supremacy over Westminster I would not be happy. If the bloc sets up an immigration policy that runs in such a way as to relegate the rest of the world as racially inferior, I would. Not be happy.

But the latter isn’t going to happen is it? Why not? Because those nations do not see themselves as a racially superior whole and do not have delusions of grandeur.

It’s all good chap. Sit back and enjoy it.
 
metalblue said:
So you’re argument for not joining is that you are worried we will end up with another EU type institution? An institution you actually voted to remain in?

Ok.
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Bazinga.

I wonder if they rever read back what they're about to post and go "nah, that makes me look incredibly hypocritical."

EU became a Political Bloc against our will, Seepy Teepeepee IS a trade bloc like the EEC that has all the attractions of the EEC. The fact it also contains several nations with the same political systems, laws, cultural aspects on standards for human rights and share the same language and £9trn worth of trade, means this should be something they'd be screaming from the heavens for.

I mean the EU were; they have been making trade arrangements with nations on the other side of the planet for the past decade. Never heard any criticisms from them about it before when we were a member.

Is it because Seepy Teepeepee isn't 'European' enough for them?
 
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Kazzydeyna said:
If we join the bloc and as a whole the Bloc wants to work together to set up a uniform set of standards on things such as food standards for example, I would be perfectly happy.

If however the bloc starts to call itself “The united States of Asia-Pacifica“ and demands its own anthem, passport, foreign ministry, and Supreme Court , with all of the above having supremacy over Westminster I would not be happy. If the bloc sets up an immigration policy that runs in such a way as to relegate the rest of the world as racially inferior, I would. Not be happy.

But the latter isn’t going to happen is it? Why not? Because those nations do not see themselves as a racially superior whole and do not have delusions of grandeur.

It’s all good chap. Sit back and enjoy it.
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After all, the EU seemed happy enough to accept their standards when they arranged trade deals with (most) of those nations. I wonder why, with the UK planning to join them, that it suddenly becomes a 'problem'?
 
BobKowalski said:
My curiosity is piqued. Why are we playing ‘Fantasy Trade Bloc Manager?’
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I am also bemused at the excitement amongst the Brexit boys about getting in bed with Pacific rim countries, many of which we already have FTAs. At best the gains will be marginal. It's weird.
Why haven't we applied to USMCA or MERCOSUR. They're a bit nearer.
 
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