Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[Ban-jani]

No I understand from the statistics that high numbers of these deaths are due to age, race and class, perhaps “age and poverty” may be a better choice of words. But it’s still 100 thousand dead and despite everything else Boris is in charge of running the government and the country

How do you think I may wear a tin foil hat when I remember what it was like before we joined the EU to be poor and I voted for Boris in the hope he would bring us out of the union. Which is exactly what he did. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say, or I’m digging a bigger hole for myself :)

If we’re talking please quote me mate or I won’t see your response.

I didn’t say you were going down that road, I just got the feeling it might do based on your post. The government nor PM specifically is at fault for it killing people with darker skin more, I have read it’s down to vitamin D issues which lighter skins absorb more... no idea if this is the case but if it is, then it’s terribly unfortunate and I feel for our brothers and sisters of other ethnicities but it’s not anyone’s fault.

Regarding criticisms of the PM and Cabinet, it’s a case of how many, even our big Western-European neighbours are at 60,000 and 75,000 deaths, with their counting being more complimentary to their governments.

Of course this is no excuse but the rhetoric of “well there’s 100,000 deaths at it’s all their fault” is very disingenuous.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

To have empathy one needs understanding. You can show sympathy without understanding.

Johnson can not show empathy because he can not relate to people who live lives different to his. This is not a criticism, it is an observation. Rees -Mogg is the same, he can not relate either. They can offer sympathy but because they lack understanding and empathy it is often disingenuous. Like I say it is not their fault as they are as much a victim of the British class system as anyone else.

IDS is a classic example of this, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he thought his reforms of the welfare system would make people's lives better, but because he cannot empathise and lacks the understanding of what it is like to live on welfare or be poor he designed UC to appeal to what he knew , thinking people were like him.

Johnson does the same, he thinks the world is like Eton and that people have good lives as that is what he knows. He think's it is normal to be boastful and be full of braggadocio because the people he interacted were all from that world.

Ask any of them how much a pint of milk is and they will not know. They will not know that beans are cheaper in Lidl than ASDA, because they have never had to know these things.

Like I said this is not a criticism and it is not only Tories that are like this, it is an observation as to why at times politicians seem so distant from actual reality.

Good post.

But it’s not just the Eton boys this applies to. Thatcher was from a working class family in a working class community, but she too lacked empathy.

Is it also the ideology that fails to encompass the understanding?

Tatcher, and her end of Conservatism, thought/thinks that the wealthier the business class are, the more money trickles down the line and society as a whole gets wealthier. But then by liberalising banking and business laws so that money was withholden in that business class, it benefitted those with little not a jot.

 

[Ban-jani]

Good post.

But it’s not just the Eton boys this applies to. Thatcher was from a working class family in a working class community, but she too lacked empathy.

Is it also the ideology that fails to encompass the understanding?

Tatcher, and her end of Conservatism, thought/thinks that the wealthier the business class are, the more money trickles down the line and society as a whole gets wealthier. But then by liberalising banking and business laws so that money was withholden in that business class, it benefitted those with little not a jot.

Thatcher thought that by opening up the economy and loosening regulations, people would do the right thing and be ethical. It was a little naive of her but during the 80s when the yuppy craze kicked off and greed took over in London, she was horrified and disgusted in people’s behaviour.

That’s neither a criticism nor a compliment I’m paying her, merely an observation of what those around her at the time said she did/thought.

 

[mat]

 

[Rascal]

Good post.

But it’s not just the Eton boys this applies to. Thatcher was from a working class family in a working class community, but she too lacked empathy.

Is it also the ideology that fails to encompass the understanding?

Tatcher, and her end of Conservatism, thought/thinks that the wealthier the business class are, the more money trickles down the line and society as a whole gets wealthier. But then by liberalising banking and business laws so that money was withholden in that business class, it benefitted those with little not a jot.

Trickle down Economic theory was one of the biggest scams ever enacted on the population. It was just a cover for those with wealth to increase their wealth. A redistribution of wealth from those with least to those with most. Reverse Socialism you could call it.

 

[Vic]

Trickle down...

How come the glass of the rich never gets smaller?

 

[Ban-jani]

Trickle down...

How come the glass of the rich never gets smaller?

Economic growth

 

[kaz7]

Thatcher thought that by opening up the economy and loosening regulations, people would do the right thing and be ethical. It was a little naive of her but during the 80s when the yuppy craze kicked off and greed took over in London, she was horrified and disgusted in people’s behaviour.

That’s neither a criticism nor a compliment I’m paying her, merely an observation of what those around her at the time said she did/thought.

Was she fuck , you had to be there to get what she was all about

 

[Vic]

Economic growth

And disparity of wealth growth, aka greed.

 

[Ban-jani]

And disparity of wealth growth, aka greed.

The important thing isn’t what those at the top have, it’s what those at the bottom have and in a capitalist system, those at the bottom are far better off than those not in a capitalist system. Just ask anyone who’s left a socialist system why they did.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Ostalgia is a thing

 

[bluethrunthru]

Some Poles don't think all has been great either. The idea that the opportunity to be exploited for the wealth of others and aren't keen on the rise of the right having fought a war against it

Lost and Found: Communism Nostalgia and Communist Chic Among Poland’s Old and Young Generations - Humanity in Action

How do Poles remember communism? The year 2009 marks the twentieth anniversary of the demise of the Polish People’s Republic, and memories of the PRL can be found in the museums dedicating exhibits to the Solidarity Movement and displaying the wretchedness of life under the Soviet Union’s iron...

www.humanityinaction.org

 

[Len Rum]

Thatcher thought that by opening up the economy and loosening regulations, people would do the right thing and be ethical. It was a little naive of her but during the 80s when the yuppy craze kicked off and greed took over in London, she was horrified and disgusted in people’s behaviour.
That’s neither a criticism nor a compliment I’m paying her, merely an observation of what those around her at the time said she did/thought.

Where did you read that mate?
Not the way I remember it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Where did you read that mate?
Not the way I remember it.

It was on the BBC documentary, I think to give an example, Tebbit said she was disgusted at people’s behaviour at the time.

 

[Len Rum]

It was on the BBC documentary, I think to give an example, Tebbit said she was disgusted at people’s behaviour at the time.

Well I wouldn't take that as gospel.
Thatcher did a lot of things without thinking through the consequences - Council House sales without replenishing stock for rent, public spending cuts which left infrastructure in major cities in crisis ( London recovered following the Mayoral initiative, other cities still feeling affect today), poll tax ( nuff said).

 

[Ban-jani]

Well I wouldn't take that as gospel.
Thatcher did a lot of things without thinking through the consequences - Council House sales without replenishing stock for rent, public spending cuts which left infrastructure in major cities in crisis ( London recovered following the Mayoral initiative, other cities still feeling affect today), poll tax ( nuff said).

Well these are all different points and the documentary wasn’t just a pro Thatcher series, it was warts and all.

Poll tax was ridiculous, the sale of council houses I don’t have a problem with, it was subsequent governments not building more that caused the crisis, coupled with the population rising significantly.

 

[journolud]

Did the population rise more than it was projected to?

 

[Chris in London]

the sale of council houses I don’t have a problem with, it was subsequent governments not building more that caused the crisis,

Actually, the law at the time prevented local authorities from using the proceeds of sale of council properties to build more council houses

 

[Ban-jani]

Actually, the law at the time prevented local authorities from using the proceeds of sale of council properties to build more council houses

I know the money was spent elsewhere but to be fair, at the time, they didn’t actually have a housing crisis.

I think every government since Thatcher has been culpable, as they’ve not built and encouraged mass immigration, it was always going to cause a housing crisis.

 

[Vic]

The important thing isn’t what those at the top have, it’s what those at the bottom have and in a capitalist system, those at the bottom are far better off than those not in a capitalist system. Just ask anyone who’s left a socialist system why they did.

The happiest societies are those where there is not great disparity of wealth. They can be capitalist.

Viral inequality: Billionaires gained $3.9tn, workers lost $3.7tn in 2020

A new Oxfam report finds the pandemic has aggravated inequality, as the world's richest have made massive gains while the world's poor have fallen further behind.

www.trtworld.com

And it's obvious that economic growth is more likely when money is in the hands of the poor, because they spend their wages rather than hoard their tax cuts. (We have exchanged the certain spending of the poor for the discretionary spending of the rich - Galbraith on Reagonomics.) It's why austerity made things worse, deliberately.