Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

Centurions said:
There'd have to be a change in regulations to enable safe standing in the first place, there's no reason that the 3 in 2 seats limit couldn't be applied as well. I found it interesting that City say they're 'bespoke' rail seats, makes me wonder what exactly they entail.
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But stadium capacity is not determined by the space available. It comes from factors like escape routes and the time taken to empty the ground.

All the indications are that there will be no change in capacity. Instead of sitting in a seat, you will stand behind the rail barrier. That certainly happened in the safe standing area at Celtic Park and I suspect at the Tottenham Stadium.

It might be different if the stand was newly built as they could engineer in the necessary escape provisions. But that cannot be done by retrofitting rail seating into an existing stand.
 
JGL07 said:
But stadium capacity is not determined by the space available. It comes from factors like escape routes and the time taken to empty the ground.

All the indications are that there will be no change in capacity. Instead of sitting in a seat, you will stand behind the rail barrier. That certainly happened in the safe standing area at Celtic Park and I suspect at the Tottenham Stadium.

It might be different if the stand was newly built as they could engineer in the necessary escape provisions. But that cannot be done by retrofitting rail seating into an existing stand.
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Of course, but are you just assuming that there's not already sufficient leeway to accommodate say 2,500 fans in the lower tier? When the North Stand was extended the same spirals were used although I'm aware it's not a linear equation.
 
Centurions said:
Of course, but are you just assuming that there's not already sufficient leeway to accommodate say 2,500 fans in the lower tier? When the North Stand was extended the same spirals were used although I'm aware it's not a linear equation.
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I would imagine there is enough leeway, we have more than the level one capacity at ground level for concerts when you consider the standing tickets which use the same exits?
 
Centurions said:
Of course, but are you just assuming that there's not already sufficient leeway to accommodate say 2,500 fans in the lower tier? When the North Stand was extended the same spirals were used although I'm aware it's not a linear equation.
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It depends on how much redundancy was built into the initial design. I suspect that when the Etihad was designed, there was an eye on future expansion.

However given the furore over Hillsborough and other disasters I cannot see any more being allowed in although thuscurrently happens in Germany. The rail seats are individual not continuous like crash barriers.

The whole idea behind all seater stadia is to prevent concentrations of supporters at particular points. This was the issue with the Hillsborough disaster rather than the total numbers in the stadium.

I would assume that with rail seating you will have a number on your ticket which states where you are entitled to stand. I doubt if it will involve free standing.
 
JGL07 said:
It depends on how much redundancy was built into the initial design. I suspect that when the Etihad was designed, there was an eye on future expansion.

However given the furore over Hillsborough and other disasters I cannot see any more being allowed in although thuscurrently happens in Germany. The rail seats are individual not continuous like crash barriers.

The whole idea behind all seater stadia is to prevent concentrations of supporters at particular points. This was the issue with the Hillsborough disaster rather than the total numbers in the stadium.

I would assume that with rail seating you will have a number on your ticket which states where you are entitled to stand. I doubt if it will involve free standing.
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I would be surprised if all new stadia builds aren't designed with redundancy at least built in, even if not with an eye on future expansion.

There's a typo in your post but I think you're saying that having more than 1 person per seat when in the raised position is used in Germany? I can't see why you then think it wouldn't be possible (infrastructure allowing) in the UK (again, legalities allowing).

Dortmund for instance has:-

"a league capacity of 81,365 (standing and seated) and an international capacity of 65,829 (seated only)"

en.wikipedia.org

Westfalenstadion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

They obviously have solved the (very) minor issue of ticket numbering.
 
Centurions said:
Good point, 60,000 with ¾ (at best) spread over the three tiers with the rest on the pitch for the Oasis concert.
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Dream on. Don’t expect large numbers to be standing in the next few years. Safe standing has been talked about for ages but has yet to happen in England. It will come slowly with small sections as a trial at the same density as for seating. Once that has been evaluated it will be expanded assuming nothing goes wrong.
 
JGL07 said:
Dream on. Don’t expect large numbers to be standing in the next few years. Safe standing has been talked about for ages but has yet to happen in England. It will come slowly with small sections as a trial at the same density as for seating. Once that has been evaluated it will be expanded assuming nothing goes wrong.
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Next season? No, the next few years though, maybe.
 
JGL07 said:
It depends on how much redundancy was built into the initial design. I suspect that when the Etihad was designed, there was an eye on future expansion.

However given the furore over Hillsborough and other disasters I cannot see any more being allowed in although thuscurrently happens in Germany. The rail seats are individual not continuous like crash barriers.

The whole idea behind all seater stadia is to prevent concentrations of supporters at particular points. This was the issue with the Hillsborough disaster rather than the total numbers in the stadium.

I would assume that with rail seating you will have a number on your ticket which states where you are entitled to stand. I doubt if it will involve free standing.
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Although a brilliant design the stadium was not designed with an eye to expansion the roof makes it very difficult
The idea of the rail seats is that you are allocated a seat you can choose to stand or sit depending upon ground regulations thus controlling the number of people in an area
I believe one of the origins of rail seats is that UEFA wouldn't allow standing accommodation for their competitions so to get around it clubs installed rail seating ad locked the seats down IIRC
 
JGL07 said:
But stadium capacity is not determined by the space available. It comes from factors like escape routes and the time taken to empty the ground.

All the indications are that there will be no change in capacity. Instead of sitting in a seat, you will stand behind the rail barrier. That certainly happened in the safe standing area at Celtic Park and I suspect at the Tottenham Stadium.

It might be different if the stand was newly built as they could engineer in the necessary escape provisions. But that cannot be done by retrofitting rail seating into an existing stand.
Click to expand...

Well our stadium empties in seconds from the 80th minute !
 
bluesmith said:
I would imagine there is enough leeway, we have more than the level one capacity at ground level for concerts when you consider the standing tickets which use the same exits?
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That’s true.

Also SSL1’s ‘unofficial’ capacity dropped when the club out the wall up in CBL1 for the new corporate area. Because people used to walk round to SSL1 from all around different areas of L1 to stand with mates in SSL1. Now they can’t do that.
 
Why are they not completing the long mooted north stand third tier, especially with this time with no fans in stadia. Seems a golden opportunity lost.... I think we will be on reduced capacity for some time so perhaps there are plans there....
 
Da_Blu_Moona said:
Why are they not completing the long mooted north stand third tier, especially with this time with no fans in stadia. Seems a golden opportunity lost.... I think we will be on reduced capacity for some time so perhaps there are plans there....
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They won’t sanction another major building project on the campus until the Arena is finished. It will be 3 or 4 years before the North Stand gets sign off - probably good timing.... City can continue to grow its fan base and safe standing may be approved by then.
 
nmc said:
They won’t sanction another major building project on the campus until the Arena is finished. It will be 3 or 4 years before the North Stand gets sign off - probably good timing.... City can continue to grow its fan base and safe standing may be approved by then.
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Absolutely.

The roof continues to be a big factor in any development.

City may be looking towards a replacement that will enable major expansion.
 
Da_Blu_Moona said:
Why are they not completing the long mooted north stand third tier, especially with this time with no fans in stadia. Seems a golden opportunity lost.... I think we will be on reduced capacity for some time so perhaps there are plans there....
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I hope they don’t create a third tier in the north stand. We’d basically have a copy of arsenals ground / a wasted opportunity

A single tier or two tiers- larger section at the bottom, would be much better. We desperately need a proper home end
 
spiny said:
Absolutely.

The roof continues to be a big factor in any development.

City may be looking towards a replacement that will enable major expansion.
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Replacing the entire original roof has been the plan for quite awhile. There is the option when they do, to put small extra tiers on the East & West stands although cost per seat may scupper that. If they did I think externally they would be looking at enclosing the spirals entirely.

I can't remember if they have to replace the entire remaining original roof when they do the North stand due to the construction. The South stand for instance could have been taller but the cable-net system would have obstructed sight lines.
 
Interesting and insightful stuff re: the roof guys. Didn’t realise it was such an obstacle to expansion. Intriguing stuff....
 
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