Energy, the environment & climate change.

Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Shale gas though, which comes with its own environmental issues.
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More water table related than greenhouse gases though. Particularly when regulations aren't particularly tight like in the US. Apparently shale gas burns much more cleanly with less emissions than gas extracted in the traditional way.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Silly argument but you say it's 1.5 billion until it becomes a red giant mate. I don't know where you got your 1.5bn from, it's 5 billion.

The earth may be uninhabitable before that but the sun will "only" be 10% brighter in about 1.5 billion years.
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This is quite good to read if you have the patience https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009EPJWC...1..267L/abstract
10% brighter means no oceans mate. No precipitation, no movement of mineralisation, very few crops. And the low estimates for that happening are 150m years, I picked 1.5bn because it was the high estimate and I didn't want to sensationalise it.
Our future isn't on this planet, but it would be sensible to mind it for the meantime.
 
aguero93:20 said:
This is quite good to read if you have the patience https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009EPJWC...1..267L/abstract
10% brighter means no oceans mate. No precipitation, no movement of mineralisation, very few crops. And the low estimates for that happening are 150m years, I picked 1.5bn because it was the high estimate and I didn't want to sensationalise it.
Our future isn't on this planet, but it would be sensible to mind it for the meantime.
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Why did you not just say "My mistake, it's not going red giant in 1.5bn years?"

Silly argument but it's irritating when people cannot just say "sorry, got that wrong" and instead we have to go around and around talking bollocks.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Why did you not just say "My mistake, it's not going red giant in 1.5bn years?"

Silly argument but it just pisses me off when people cannot just say "sorry, got that wrong".
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It's going red giant in 1.5bn years mate, the process takes a long time, but we leave the goldilocks zone very early on in it. It runs out of fuel in 5bn years. However that's immaterial as we'll be long out of this solar system or extinct by then.
 
aguero93:20 said:
It's going red giant in 1.5bn years mate, the process takes a long time, but we leave the goldilocks zone very early on in it. It runs out of fuel in 5bn years. However that's immaterial as we'll be long out of this solar system or extinct by then.
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Sorry but you are mistaken. It will BEGIN the helium burning phase, turning into a red giant in 5+ billion years.
 
west didsblue said:
More water table related than greenhouse gases though. Particularly when regulations aren't particularly tight like in the US. Apparently shale gas burns much more cleanly with less emissions than gas extracted in the traditional way.
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That's what I meant. The previous administration did away with the regulations which meant that the energy companies are free to maximise their profits without consideration for the environmental impacts on the local population (poisoning the water, plus air pollution which effects workers and the local population).

It will be Flint MI or PG&E Hinkley CA all over again; probably worse. All for a few extra dollars.
 
aguero93:20 said:
I must meet these scientists you're reading, any chance of a source?
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Really???

Google "Sun Red Giant" and on page 1, every single link confirms it.

Link 1, space.com: "In approximately 5 billion years, the sun will begin the helium-burning process, turning into a red giant star."

Link2: Phys.org, "the sun has been in what is known as its main sequence, where nuclear fusion in its core causes it to emit energy and light, keeping us here on Earth nourished. This will last for another 4.5 – 5.5 billion years"

Link3: WIkipedia; "The Sun will exit the main sequence in approximately 5 billion years and start to turn into a red giant.[27][28] "

Link4: Astronomy.com: "Roughly 5 billion years from now, the Sun will exhaust the hydrogen fuel in its core and start burning helium, forcing its transition into a red giant star."

Link5: Theconversation.com: "The sun won’t die for 5 billion years ... In a few billion years, the sun will become a red giant so large that it will engulf our planet."

Link6: Futurism.com: "When the Sun becomes a fully-fledged, full grown red giant (in some 7.59 billion years"

Link7: *Universetoday: "the Sun has been in what is known as its Main Sequence, where nuclear fusion in its core causes it to emit energy and light, keeping us here on Earth nourished. This will last for another 4.5 – 5.5 billion years"

Link8: Schoolsobservatory: "In the Sun's case, this will mean the fiery end of all the inner planets of our Solar System, which might also include the Earth; but don't worry, this won't happen for another 5,000,000,000 years."

Link9: Discovermagazine: "In roughly 5 billion years, the sun will run out of energy and drastically alter the solar system"

That is everything on page 1. Need I go to page 2?

Seriously mate, I only linked all of these because I had a bored spare moment, but honestly it is the accepted fact. The sun does not begin transitioning into a red giant until the hydrogen runs out and then it starts to fuse helium, and that *starts* in about 5 billion years time, not 1.5 billion. It's really not up for debate.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Really???

Google "Sun Red Giant" and on page 1, every single link confirms it.

Link 1, space.com: "In approximately 5 billion years, the sun will begin the helium-burning process, turning into a red giant star."

Link2: Phys.org, "the sun has been in what is known as its main sequence, where nuclear fusion in its core causes it to emit energy and light, keeping us here on Earth nourished. This will last for another 4.5 – 5.5 billion years"

Link3: WIkipedia; "The Sun will exit the main sequence in approximately 5 billion years and start to turn into a red giant.[27][28] "

Link4: Astronomy.com: "Roughly 5 billion years from now, the Sun will exhaust the hydrogen fuel in its core and start burning helium, forcing its transition into a red giant star."

Link5: Theconversation.com: "The sun won’t die for 5 billion years ... In a few billion years, the sun will become a red giant so large that it will engulf our planet."

Link6: Futurism.com: "When the Sun becomes a fully-fledged, full grown red giant (in some 7.59 billion years"

Link7: *Universetoday: "the Sun has been in what is known as its Main Sequence, where nuclear fusion in its core causes it to emit energy and light, keeping us here on Earth nourished. This will last for another 4.5 – 5.5 billion years"

Link8: Schoolsobservatory: "In the Sun's case, this will mean the fiery end of all the inner planets of our Solar System, which might also include the Earth; but don't worry, this won't happen for another 5,000,000,000 years."

Link9: Discovermagazine: "In roughly 5 billion years, the sun will run out of energy and drastically alter the solar system"

That is everything on page 1. Need I go to page 2?

Seriously mate, I only linked all of these because I had a bored spare moment, but honestly it is the accepted fact. The sun does not begin transitioning into a red giant until the hydrogen runs out and then it starts to fuse helium, and that *starts* in about 5 billion years time, not 1.5 billion. It's really not up for debate.
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So look up when the earth becomes inhabitable as part of the process
 
aguero93:20 said:
So look up when the earth becomes inhabitable as part of the process
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Wrong answer.

The answer you were looking for was "Sorry Chippy, yes you are right. I was mistaken when I said that the sun turns into a red giant in 1.5 billion years". "And I was also wrong to try to worm out of it by saying it starts the process in 1.5 billion years".

You said "1.5bn when it goes red giant." WRONG.

You then said "It's going red giant in 1.5bn years mate, the process takes a long time" WRONG.

Just man up FFS instead of this silly attempted deflection.
 
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Chippy_boy said:
Wrong answer.

The answer you were looking for was "Sorry Chippy, yes you are right. I was mistaken when I said that the sun turns into a red giant in 1.5 billion years". "And I was also wrong to try to worm out of it by saying it starts the process in 1.5 billion years".

You said "1.5bn when it goes red giant." WRONG.

You then said "It's going red giant in 1.5bn years mate, the process takes a long time" WRONG.

Just man up FFS instead of this silly attempted deflection.
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No oceans, no rain, uninhabitable planet, sun no longer having hydrogen to burn, 1.5bn years. You're making a tit of yourself.
 
aguero93:20 said:
No oceans, no rain, uninhabitable planet, sun no longer having hydrogen to burn, 1.5bn years. You're making a tit of yourself.
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Hahahahahhahahaha.

This is (from you) quite possibly the most pathetic attempt at not making a tit of yourself I have EVER seen on this forum, ever. And I have been here for 13 years. Seriously.

You made 2 stark, unequivocable, plain statements that the sun will turn into a red giant in 1.5 billion years. That's what I am taking issue with. You said it twice. I told you you were mistaken, several times. You asked me for evidence and so I wasted my time doing a simple Google for you and showed you the entire 1st page of the Google results, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHICH showed that you were WRONG.

And have the bare faced cheek to suggest that I am making a tit of myself? Hahahahahahhahhaa. Grow up.
 
west didsblue said:
If I were you, I'd just wait 1.5bn years then tell him you told him so.
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It's just deflection from him mate, refusing to admit he's wrong. I have never claimed the oceans won't dry up, merely that the sun will not be a red giant in 1.5 billion years.
 
Chippy_boy said:
It's just deflection from him mate, refusing to admit he's wrong. I have never claimed the oceans won't dry up, merely that the sun will not be a red giant in 1.5 billion years.
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It takes a star about 4 billion years to go from stable to red giant mate, your problem is that you can't comprehend it.
 
aguero93:20 said:
No oceans, no rain, uninhabitable planet, sun no longer having hydrogen to burn, 1.5bn years. You're making a tit of yourself.
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And BTW that's WRONG as well. The sun DOES NOT run out of hydrogen in 1.5 billion years. It's 5 billion. How many fucking times do you have to be told? FFS. Is a page of 9 links not enough for you FFS? Do I really have to go to page 2 and another 9 links????
 
aguero93:20 said:
It takes a star about 4 billion years to go from stable to red giant mate, your problem is that you can't comprehend it.
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NO IT DOES NOT. It does not START until 5 billion years. Jesus Wept.

Astronomy.com: "Roughly 5 billion years from now, the Sun will exhaust the hydrogen fuel in its core and start burning helium, forcing its transition into a red giant star

Try reading it out loud.

1617209024901.png
The process STARTS in 5 billion years and takes 2 or 3 billions of years more to complete. The sun is 12 billion years old in about 7.4 billion years time.
 
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Chippy_boy said:
NO IT FUCKING DOES NOT. It does not START until 5 billion years. Jesus Wept.

Astronomy.com: "Roughly 5 billion years from now, the Sun will exhaust the hydrogen fuel in its core and start burning helium, forcing its transition into a red giant star

Read it out loud if it helps.
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Good for you. They're debunked
 
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