Irish Current Affairs

Been a few times and loved it .
Very surprised that Farage , Francois , Duncan Smith and co are so quiet , surely they must have a solution to the problem .
 
bluethrunthru said:
what a fucking shit lightweight awful NI Secretary still unable to own up about how wrong he has been and how little he knows

www.lbc.co.uk

Watch in full: Iain Dale interviews Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis | LBC

Watch in full: Iain Dale interviews Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis amid disorder in the province.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Couldn't finish it....

I don't intend to to offend anyone, except brandon Lewis, but as soon as I hear that accent I just think, why the feck are you in that job....what on earth can some poncy tory englishman bring to the job....ffs, I turned it off at the point he talks about meeting with the loyalist (and cross community) representatives to try and understand what concerns they have......jesus wept, bit fuckin late to go on a fact finding mission. The NI Secretary should have expert knowledge of the politics of NI, no?
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
Genuine question...as people in GB what are your thoughts on the future of NI/RoI. And i dont mean "its up to the people of NI to decide".

Do you desperately want NI to remain part of the UK?
Do you want NI to leave the UK become part of a United Ireland?
Are you indifferent?
Will it actually affect your day to day life?
a.n. other option?
Click to expand...
Interesting question AWG.
Not being part of GB it’s not directed at the likes of me but just an observation that we all know to be true.
You cannot unify territory if you haven’t first unified people. People are not unified and it was always my view Scotland would be more likely to leave the Union before NI ever would in any presently understood capacity.

Holding a border referendum prematurely or the mere threat of it will result in the scenes we are seeing again now.

Regardless of what the rest of GB want, what Brexit has done is put a United Ireland to the forefront of any present or future government.
This means that Michael Martin, Leo Varadkar and MaryLou et al better start focusing on the reality of what this would involve. I reckon even if any of them had a genuine plan that would fly with at least two thirds of the population of NI, it would take ten to fifteen years of infrastructural integration, with cross boarder bodies being set up and paving the way.

Just saying we should have a referendum is as shortsighted as the Brexit referendum was.

Similar to yourself Stephen, my 18 year old asked me today, ‘Is this how the Troubles started originally’.
He has no particular wish for a United Ireland. He doesn’t see it as a priority for his generation.
I told him, I had no particular wish for one either but I would love a United Island.
Any lasting peaceful future will have to have not just a change of viewpoint from traditional Unionism up north, but the nationalist community will have to accept that there can be no triumphalism in whatever is set up and we down south will have to accept a wide range of changes in viewpoint and mentality too.
This will involve a lot more sacrifices from the population in general but perhaps very significantly to your traditional Sinn Fein voter, in particular

I do think that since the mid 1980’s The Republic has been modernising and making constitutional changes designed to be more inclusive and accommodating but I really think as a whole on the island we are still years away from any real unity

I look forward to Sinn Fein canvassing at my door (they never have) at the next election or for a referendum campaign.
I would be delighted to hear what their comprehensive plan for unity would be.
 
There was a decent report from The loyalist community on the Shankill Road on Prime Time tonight on RTE. It included various loyalists of different ages. There was an ex Red Hand Commando who is a community worker now and he reckoned that there was no UDA involvement in mobilising these youths to riot, but he did say there was a criminal element who are within the paramilitaries that have organised the violence.

There was also a couple of young guys who were thankful for the peace of the GFA generation and another young woman and the one think that was uniform in their reading of the current climate is that Loyalism feels totally left behind and let down both by the government of the UK but also from Unionist politicians. They feel they have no voice, no representation and say that although they don’t condone the rioting, that it has been coming.

What is the viewpoint of our Northern Irish contributors. The blame or catalyst seemed to be spread evenly between Boris/Leo/EU for coming up with the NIP.

What else would an Irish Taoiseach do, I ask? The other side of the coin is you would have had trouble placing a border on the island also.

I understand their frustration but can never get my head around how Loyalism can’t see how ridiculous it seems to us, to be loyal to the very thing that constantly demonstrates that it doesn’t give a damn about you.
Surely everyone can see the problem is the Tory government negotiated for the current predicament and this is what the UK voted for but is not what NI voted for.
Unfortunately for NI, this is democracy. If a referendum votes for a United Ireland, it also would be democratic and it would be something the UK government in the past has signed up for, as we all did.

The bottom line in the Loyalist interviews was that in 23 years of the GFA certain elements of the loyalist community still feel that it was a victory for the IRA. That they have benefited nothing from it.

What do you think?
Where should their anger be directed ?
How big of a minority is this perception.?
If there is no trust in the three main unionist parties within this community then who is going to represent them going forward?
 
Last edited:
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
Couldn't finish it....

I don't intend to to offend anyone, except brandon Lewis, but as soon as I hear that accent I just think, why the feck are you in that job....what on earth can some poncy tory englishman bring to the job....ffs, I turned it off at the point he talks about meeting with the loyalist (and cross community) representatives to try and understand what concerns they have......jesus wept, bit fuckin late to go on a fact finding mission. The NI Secretary should have expert knowledge of the politics of NI, no?
Click to expand...
Yet a vast improvement on his predecessor...

Secretary of State 'did not understand' NI voting patterns - BBC News

But there's one former NI secretary whose memory is being trashed by these utterly incompetent Tories.

Marjorie “Mo” Mowlam (1949-2005) - Find A Grave Memorial


Here's the Mo Mowlam play area at Stormont.

1617920946966.png
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
Genuine question...as people in GB what are your thoughts on the future of NI/RoI. And i dont mean "its up to the people of NI to decide".

Do you desperately want NI to remain part of the UK?
Do you want NI to leave the UK become part of a United Ireland?
Are you indifferent?
Will it actually affect your day to day life?
a.n. other option?
Click to expand...
The U.K. in its present format is a busted flush IMO. To answer your question directly, I want Scotland out and able to make its own mistakes rather than have those of an unsupported Tory government foisted on us. The good people of NI need to decide for themselves the same question.

meanwhile, the gullible are fed a line that blames others for the NIP. This from the fail today:

During Brexit negotiations, the EU, encouraged by the Irish government, cynically set out to weaponise Northern Ireland to scupper a deal or at the very least heavily punish the British.

There was a perfectly feasible way through smart technology and a Trusted Trader scheme to have a virtually invisible border on the Irish/EU side.

But Theresa May and her negotiating team caved in to the ludicrously exaggerated warnings about how a land border would lead to a resumption of violence and the death of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.

By the time Boris Johnson took over in December 2019, the pass had been sold. And, to get a Brexit deal that worked, he had to agree to an arrangement known as the Northern Ireland Protocol which impedes trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

Out of sheer spite, the EU has chosen to interpret the rules as inflexibly as possible and cause maximum disruption. And, to make it even worse, Sinn Fein have been crowing mendaciously about how this leads inexorably to a United Ireland.

I think Unionists in NI have some soul searching to do to honestly ask themselves what is it they want and believe they will get from the United Kingdom. A fair voice? Truth, honesty, integrity?
It is as impossible for them to influence who governs as it is for Scotland and Wales and for as long as England continues to vote in a lying venal corrupt government that is intent on stripping the U.K. of all that was good about it then for me the writing is on the wall.

the only thing I can see saving the Union is some root and branch changes to put each country on an equal basis, each with a devolved parliament (maybe England with Regional parliaments) and reserved powers at Westminster being diluted significantly.

I don’t mean to be controversial or in any way inflammatory. Just my opinion.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
There was a decent report from The loyalist community on the Shankill Road on Prime Time tonight on RTE. It included various loyalists of different ages. There was an ex Red Hand Commando who is a community worker now and he reckoned that there was no UDA involvement in mobilising these youths to riot, but he did say there was a criminal element who are within the paramilitaries that have organised the violence.

There was also a couple of young guys who were thankful for the peace of the GFA generation and another young woman and the one think that was uniform in their reading of the current climate is that Loyalism feels totally left behind and let down both by the government of the UK but also from Unionist politicians. They feel they have no voice, no representation and say that although they don’t condone the rioting, that it has been coming.

What is the viewpoint of our Northern Irish contributors. The blame or catalyst seemed to be spread evenly between Boris/Leo/EU for coming up with the NIP.

What else would an Irish Taoiseach do, I ask? The other side of the coin is you would have had trouble placing a border on the island also.

I understand their frustration but can never get my head around how Loyalism can’t see how ridiculous it seems to us, to be loyal to the very thing that constantly demonstrates that it doesn’t give a damn about you.
Surely everyone can see the problem is the Tory government negotiated for the current predicament and this is what the UK voted for but is not what NI voted for.
Unfortunately for NI, this is democracy. If a referendum votes for a United Ireland, it also would be democratic and it would be something the UK government in the past has signed up for, as we all did.

The bottom line in the Loyalist interviews was that in 23 years of the GFA certain elements of the loyalist community still feel that it was a victory for the IRA. That they have benefited nothing from it.

What do you think?
Where should their anger be directed ?
How big of a minority is this conception.?
If there is no trust in the three main unionist parties within this community then who is going to represent them going forward?
Click to expand...
I usually stay out of these discussions but agree with most of this as how people feel. My background is a Protestant from Coleraine (largely loyalist/protestant town but with an area of growing nationalist verging on republican views). My sister still lives in family home in the nationalist area. I have good friends who are councillors on the local council representative of protestant community and also independents, also know people who've been in jail for murder and attempted murder. Shooting and bombing, also had friends murdered and others died (some by their own bombs) Guys I went to school with and known for 50 years. Got my ear to the ground as what's happening on the streets. Been attacked numerous times when visiting my sister purely because I'm a Protestant walking in that area. I refuse to stop walking round there but noticed it's got worse in last 20/30 years. I would only walk during day and not in darkness. On other hand my son (aged 23) been threatened on more than one occasion by local UDA where he lives just outside the town. I've had to make phone calls and call in favours to get the threats rescinded and also reported to police. The threat's from nationalists side to me and family come from local drug gang, the leader is known tout who has 100s of convictions drives numerous expensive flash cars but never spent any time of length in prison, his son similar story. So I know what's going on on the ground. The locals in Coleraine of loyalist community feel like those in interview and to me anger should be directed to their political parties for lack of leadership from day 1. Most people don't vote on local issues but 'to keep the other ones out' (that's on both sides). There is too but much what about them uns (on both sides). I sent message to friend here in London last night he asked me why it was happening and I replied on loyalist side been brewing for months, the police attitude to Bobby storeys funeral, 2 tier policing, no confidence in police or government (local or national), failure of Good Friday agreement, the implementation of Irish sea border. That's feeling on ground in all protestant area's. Add to that almost nightly attacks on homes from nationalists in West Belfast (I am friends with community workers on the ground in areas and it is happening on regular basis). Also attacks from protestants on nationalist homes (both are wrong on all levels) some of the protestants are also being riled by criminal elements and drug lords as they are being hounded by the police and youths then sent to cause destruction. On a personal level although I miss home with all my heart feel safer walking round London at night (been here 20 years) than I would taking 15 minute walk from local to my sister's. I have been there seen it got the t shirt for protesting and think its a right of everyone to be able to do so in a peaceful manner. In my youth during worst of troubles I took part in plenty of them but never ever attacked anyone or anything. One of the reasons is that would take away the legitimacy of protest, another I wouldn't want anyone doing that to me or family or property. My father would have battered me, I also had decent job which gave me freedom to do things, most of all pay to travel to watch City. Sorry turned into post lot longer than intended
 
ob said:
I usually stay out of these discussions but agree with most of this as how people feel. My background is a Protestant from Coleraine (largely loyalist/protestant town but with an area of growing nationalist verging on republican views). My sister still lives in family home in the nationalist area. I have good friends who are councillors on the local council representative of protestant community and also independents, also know people who've been in jail for murder and attempted murder. Shooting and bombing, also had friends murdered and others died (some by their own bombs) Guys I went to school with and known for 50 years. Got my ear to the ground as what's happening on the streets. Been attacked numerous times when visiting my sister purely because I'm a Protestant walking in that area. I refuse to stop walking round there but noticed it's got worse in last 20/30 years. I would only walk during day and not in darkness. On other hand my son (aged 23) been threatened on more than one occasion by local UDA where he lives just outside the town. I've had to make phone calls and call in favours to get the threats rescinded and also reported to police. The threat's from nationalists side to me and family come from local drug gang, the leader is known tout who has 100s of convictions drives numerous expensive flash cars but never spent any time of length in prison, his son similar story. So I know what's going on on the ground. The locals in Coleraine of loyalist community feel like those in interview and to me anger should be directed to their political parties for lack of leadership from day 1. Most people don't vote on local issues but 'to keep the other ones out' (that's on both sides). There is too but much what about them uns (on both sides). I sent message to friend here in London last night he asked me why it was happening and I replied on loyalist side been brewing for months, the police attitude to Bobby storeys funeral, 2 tier policing, no confidence in police or government (local or national), failure of Good Friday agreement, the implementation of Irish sea border. That's feeling on ground in all protestant area's. Add to that almost nightly attacks on homes from nationalists in West Belfast (I am friends with community workers on the ground in areas and it is happening on regular basis). Also attacks from protestants on nationalist homes (both are wrong on all levels) some of the protestants are also being riled by criminal elements and drug lords as they are being hounded by the police and youths then sent to cause destruction. On a personal level although I miss home with all my heart feel safer walking round London at night (been here 20 years) than I would taking 15 minute walk from local to my sister's. I have been there seen it got the t shirt for protesting and think its a right of everyone to be able to do so in a peaceful manner. In my youth during worst of troubles I took part in plenty of them but never ever attacked anyone or anything. One of the reasons is that would take away the legitimacy of protest, another I wouldn't want anyone doing that to me or family or property. My father would have battered me, I also had decent job which gave me freedom to do things, most of all pay to travel to watch City. Sorry turned into post lot longer than intended
Click to expand...
Interesting post from someone that has experience of the history and the here and now. What do you see happening over the next couple of years? What would it take to improve the situation?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Interesting post from someone that has experience of the history and the here and now. What do you see happening over the next couple of years? What would it take to improve the situation?
Click to expand...
People on both sides are disillusioned with both local and national governments. I think personally the peace process was amazing, growing up going to college in Belfast from a small town I was terrified of parked cars, bomb scares, being in wrong neighbourhood, taking wrong turn. Once peace process kicked in it was a different atmosphere and almost like normal society in my opinion. I believe there is a new generation now that missed out on the joy of the peace process but also didn't have the horror and terror of the troubles. I think politicians need to engage with community workers on both sides, find out feelings in run down, deprived areas (there is no difference between a Protestant and Catholic, a loyalist and nationalist deprived area), if they looked over the fence they would see that. Both sides feel alienated and them uns are getting this that and the other. Both lots of political side's need to work for the people regardless if they are green or orange, for their people on common things like jobs, housing, NHS, social and welfare issues. Rather than points sciring to get one over on 'the other side'. Unfortunately unless people get a grip I don't see a bright future for it for a long long time again and that makes me cry, sad and broken hearted. Sitting here with tears streaming down my face as I type this and got to explain to my partner why and as she's English not sure I can very easily
 
ob said:
People on both sides are disillusioned with both local and national governments. I think personally the peace process was amazing, growing up going to college in Belfast from a small town I was terrified of parked cars, bomb scares, being in wrong neighbourhood, taking wrong turn. Once peace process kicked in it was a different atmosphere and almost like normal society in my opinion. I believe there is a new generation now that missed out on the joy of the peace process but also didn't have the horror and terror of the troubles. I think politicians need to engage with community workers on both sides, find out feelings in run down, deprived areas (there is no difference between a Protestant and Catholic, a loyalist and nationalist deprived area), if they looked over the fence they would see that. Both sides feel alienated and them uns are getting this that and the other. Both lots of political side's need to work for the people regardless if they are green or orange, for their people on common things like jobs, housing, NHS, social and welfare issues. Rather than points sciring to get one over on 'the other side'. Unfortunately unless people get a grip I don't see a bright future for it for a long long time again and that makes me cry, sad and broken hearted. Sitting here with tears streaming down my face as I type this and got to explain to my partner why and as she's English not sure I can very easily
Click to expand...
I feel for you mate. I had a close colleague who grew up in Belfast at the height of the troubles so have some second hand understanding of what she went through. Sadly, politicians seem to be more and more polarised and the chances of them working together to improve the situation are slim.
I hope to god we are both wrong. In a civilised country people deserve to live in peace and some degree of harmony and tolerance whatever their political, race, religion or socio economic background are.

I think a coverage of Irish history should be mandatory in all schools in the U.K. it might broaden the understanding just a little.

hope your day improves mate. :-)
 
Brexit, Boris and the DUP. What a combo. What is ironic, is it wasn't a Left wing Labour Gov who fucked it all up, to undermine the keeping of the Fleg, it was their very own DUP and Tories. Their own party, banked the £1b bung, voted to keep the Tories afloat, agreed to the deal and are now looking to offload their absolute culpability. The sickener is NI voted to Remain. Well not all, I bet most, if not all, of the cunts rioting didn't. The British Empire, Glory, Let's Go it Alone, pish is their meat and two veg. So I bet they're Brexiteers right down to their UJ socks. Everybody not devoid of intelligence, warned them this was a certainty. Well almost everybody. Here's another deluded arsehole who pretended otherwise.
 

Attachments

  • FB_IMG_1617959688306.jpg
    FB_IMG_1617959688306.jpg
    35.5 KB · Views: 3
Johnson and co don't give a fuck about NI. As long as the compliant press can be persuaded to claim the rioting isn't a result of brexit job done - Belfast can burn as long as the press report its all caused by children who are manipulated by adult gangsters
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top