CFG | Academy | EDS in & out season 2021/22

BillyShears said:
That's because with the sole exception of Sancho, there isn't a single player who was actually good enough. Foden on the other hand made the break through because he is good enough, and if Delap is he'll get his chance. If he isn't, like you said he'll get sold.

I don't think you we can go into the season relying on Delap, and I don't think there's a crystal ball that we can chart his development in. We just have to wait and see.
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I think the frustration for some is that many probably are actually good enough if given a chance. Whether that should happen or not is a different debate, but it's a fair point. Our academy sides are battering everyone so clearly elite in terms of youth success. They're the cream of the crop.

We're currently chasing a Villa product who wasn't exactly Phil Foden at the same age. Kane wasn't even a superstar dead cert either. The clubs that we're signing these players from aren't just better at producing talented young players. They're often not. The difference is that they gave them a chance. Some people want us to do the same. I don't think that's unreasonable and it definitely is a bit unfair when people just presume that any player we move on was just not good enough. It's a bit of a simplification.
 
blueparrot said:
But won nothing in the last few years.
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That's because they have been largely in transition since Ferguson left, plus we've been so dominant. Our academy was set up to (eventually) produce our own young starlets, not buy them from other clubs.
balotelli's back pocket said:
Success? What success?

Unless you're going back to the 90s?
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Was 92 as you know and it worked successfully. No reason why we cannot bring a few kids through next season.
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
No i don't expect overnight success but the academy (like i say) has been open going on 8 years! The rags have had success by successfully integrating youth into the first team and there's no excuses not to give our best kids a chance IMO.
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8 former academy players in the knockout stages of the Euro’s with 10 involved in the final stages, suggest they’re doing something right. Developing players, educating players, selling them on, options to buy back or rake another fee should they be sold on. It’s a gold mine not only for city but for the players involved. I hear the usual ‘pundits’ saying dont go to city as there is no path into the first team. There might not be an immediate path into the city first team, unless you’re exceptional, but there is certainly a path into professional football for more of our academy than most, if not all, of the others. What’s not to like?
 
twosips said:
I think the frustration for some is that many probably are actually good enough if given a chance. Whether that should happen or not is a different debate, but it's a fair point. Our academy sides are battering everyone so clearly elite in terms of youth success. They're the cream of the crop.

We're currently chasing a Villa product who wasn't exactly Phil Foden at the same age. Kane wasn't even a superstar dead cert either. The clubs that we're signing these players from aren't just better at producing talented young players. They're often not. The difference is that they gave them a chance. Some people want us to do the same. I don't think that's unreasonable and it definitely is a bit unfair when people just presume that any player we move on was just not good enough. It's a bit of a simplification.
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What I don't get is that we don't use the CFG clubs more for experience.

I thought there would be loads off to Girona to get some senior level football then maybe one or 2 coming back to the first team squad.

The only one who's ever had a game after being out on loan is Zinchenko and he'd already had senior football before he signed for us.
 
twosips said:
I think the frustration for some is that many probably are actually good enough if given a chance.
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If people are frustrated at how the academy is run, that's up to them. I like winning trophies and we do lots of that so the whole 'development' thing I'm happy to leave to clubs like Dortmund whose entire business is built around taking punts on kids.

Also, as I say, we haven't lost a single one other than Sancho who has achieved anything that made me think "shit they could've done it here".
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
Foden is the only homegrown academy player that's made it since our academy opened in late 2013. That's pretty piss poor i think.
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I’m not sure you understand what an academy is all about in modern football. Foden is a shining example however the concept is more of a business model now. Its a stream of income selling youth on. Taking a young player on and developing him into a talented prospect to them sell on for millions is a fabulous business model at little cost. City do this perfectly, yes we may have a Phil Foden come along once every 10 years however the concept is far greater. If you thought we’d have a team full of academy player by now then you’d be sadly mistaken.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
8 former academy players in the knockout stages of the Euro’s with 10 involved in the final stages, suggest they’re doing something right. Developing players, educating players, selling them on, options to buy back or rake another fee should they be sold on. It’s a gold mine not only for city but for the players involved. I hear the usual ‘pundits’ saying dont go to city as there is no path into the first team. There might not be an immediate path into the city first team, unless you’re exceptional, but there is certainly a path into professional football for more of our academy than most, if not all, of the others. What’s not to like?
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What's not to like? Lol. It's about time we started developing young players for us. If we weren't loaded we'd have no choice to give youth a chance.
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
No i don't expect overnight success but the academy (like i say) has been open going on 8 years! The rags have had success by successfully integrating youth into the first team and there's no excuses not to give our best kids a chance IMO.
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No mate,the rags are shit,meaning,their academy players are good enough to get in.
Would any of the rags academy players broke into our first team,I doubt it.
I can only imagine being in City's academy is probably the toughest one to be in.Most will know they will not get first team football.
But,they will be developed enough to make it elsewhere,imo.
 
Kippax. said:
I’m not sure you understand what an academy is all about in modern football. Foden is a shining example however the concept is more of a business model now. Its a stream of income selling youth on. Taking a young player on and developing him into a talented prospect to them sell on for millions is a fabulous business model at little cost. City do this perfectly, yes we may have a Phil Foden come along once every 10 years however the concept is far greater. If you thought we’d have a team full of academy player by now then you’d be sadly mistaken.
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I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves pal. Sheikh Mansour built the academy to produce youngsters for our benefit, not other clubs!
 
Interesting we have switched to this topic the Athletic have an article out at thus moment on the subject




Honestly though I could live with a season or two finishing say 3rd and trophyless if the year after we won the league and got to cup finals with a team that had 4-5 home grown and preferably mancunian or from gtr manc players in it.
 
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BlueMoonRisin’ said:
No i don't expect overnight success but the academy (like i say) has been open going on 8 years! The rags have had success by successfully integrating youth into the first team and there's no excuses not to give our best kids a chance IMO.
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i think its not that easy matey ?? united do sign the best young kids at 16 and put them down as home grown
it takes 8 years from the first time they come to city. some are now coming at 8 year olds so you can do the maths they would be about 16 now ?

like i said if we can keep adding one or two every season into the first team squad and get them in and around the players then we will see results

also city academy is a gate way into professional football at all levels and loads of young players are now professional footballers because of the academy
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
No i don't expect overnight success but the academy (like i say) has been open going on 8 years! The rags have had success by successfully integrating youth into the first team and there's no excuses not to give our best kids a chance IMO.
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Delap, Doyle, Palmer, Harwood-Bellis and Bernabé all started games for us last season. Relax.
 
urban genie said:
Interesting we have switched to this topic the Athletic have an article out at thus moment on the subject




Hinestly though I could live with a season finishing say 3rd and trophyless if the year after we won the league and got to cup finals with a team that had 4-5 home grown and preferably mancunian players in it.
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Is every part of greater Manchester considered mancunian? (I’m not from England)
 
SPIDERBOY said:
No mate,the rags are shit,meaning,their academy players are good enough to get in.
Would any of the rags academy players broke into our first team,I doubt it.
I can only imagine being in City's academy is probably the toughest one to be in.Most will know they will not get first team football.
But,they will be developed enough to make it elsewhere,imo.
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Exactly....that McTomm lad would never see a first team shirt here, not on his peg anyway.

Most of the raggy ones play a few then are sold on, just fodder but after half a dozen games the rag tax applies and values soar when sold. Maybe that's what we're doing wrong, give kids 6/7 games and sell at £25m rather than £10m from the eds?
 
Bobby Heaton Moor said:
Delap, Doyle, Palmer, Harwood-Bellis and Bernabé all started games for us last season. Relax.
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Pretty much all of those starts came in September in league cup games, when half of the first team were injured or barely back from pre-season. After that the only ones who started were Doyle and THB against Cheltenham (and they were both subbed off).
 
Cobra said:
Unless I’m mistaken the only academy players who have started a league game for us in the past 7 years are Foden and Garcia. Is that the absolute maximum we could have expected given how much money we’ve spent on the academy? And in that time plenty of shit players have been given chances - Nolito, Fernando, Kolarov, Sagna, Rodwell, Delph (as a midfielder), Navas (in his last couple of seasons), Bravo, Bony etc. Heaven forbid we give an incredibly talented academy player a chance though.
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It’s a cash cow to develop and move on. It’s business.
 
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