Today's shooting in America thread

[snorky]

Just read the whole article and the gunmen is from the town I just moved 5 miles away from
"The suspect lives in Brandon, Florida, about 20 miles from where the shooting took place."

I have always been anti owning a gun but lately my line of thinking is changing..... I must he one of a few around here that doesn't own one which is starting to make me feel vulnerable...... clearly I don't need to own an AK15 but if some nutter comes knocking on my door currently I have nothing to protect myself with.

Just put a wanky Smiths song on really loudly mate.
Chances are the nutter will turn the gun on himself!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

haha comedy gold

Scintillating analysis. Anything to add?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I guess it boils down to what you consider an 'infringement'. It can be argued that an infringement is any barrier to what many people interpret as the 'right to bear arms as being unfettered access to firearms, independent of type, calibre and capacity.

In reality, everyone has the right to bear arms. There are just certain criteria you have to meet.

And herein lies the problem with 2A; vague in its wording and widely open to interpretation. Also written when the most advanced weapon was a single-shot musket capable (at best) of firing 4 rounds per minute with shots falling in the general direction of where you pointed it (50cm diameter at 100m). 2A is not fit for purpose.

Don’t disagree with your issues with it, but only 200+ years of arguing those points so far and we have a SCOTUS that has to read and interpret it.

With a 6-3 Conservative split for the next generation, and with the rules needed for a Constitutional Amendment, it’s not about to change, no matter what I think, you think, or anyone else thinks.

BTW, the whole ”fit for purpose” thing is a British construct.

One thing I don’t understand on Bluemoon is why Brits get all up in arms (pun intended) about 2A knowing that not only is it not about to change, but it’s all happening thousands of miles away in a different country and culture.

Are there not enough other issues in the UK (or wider world) that DO affect their lives, or is it some kind of belief that there is some level of moral superiority in believing that guns should be banned, and they want to display it to allcomers?

Even the title of the thread smacks of condescension and looking down one’s nose at the issue and country. It’s all getting a little boring, but at least the thread will never die, because they’ll be another shooting tomorrow, just as they’ll be another tragic incident much, much closer to their own home that they will have somehow normalized in their own mind.

 

[Gabriel]

You’re not from around here, are you? HAHA!

Also, think about it for one second and you might find yourself an answer…


Define “gun nut.”
Therein lies a big problem when the foundational document of your country gives you the RIGHT (not permission, not acquiescence, not forbearance, but THE RIGHT) to own a firearm.

We can discuss the age of the document, it’s relevance in a 21st century society where people march through their belief in its intent and commit heinous murders, but you need to get in line for that discussion.

Brits act like MILLIONS OF AMERICANS don’t feel the same way as they do about stopping the proliferation of firearms in America. The problem is those people all live close to each other, in not enough places to effect the change they seek.

Don’t forget, most Republican Presidents today get elected with LESS VOTES THAN THEIR DEMOCRATIC OPPONENT!

Joe Biden won the election by over 7 MILLION votes, but barely squeaked the election by thousands of votes in large states like AZ, GA, PA…states that are bigger than England!

The problem with guns in America is politics. The problem with politics in America is that it’s hard for outsiders to wrap their head around how things work in reality. Ergo, “America (and thus Americans) suck because they ‘all’ like their guns more than their kids, parents and grandparents they kill on a daily basis” is one of those outsider memes that falls on deaf ears over here because the speaker has simply attached themselves to a lazy narrative.

NO American desires the loss of innocent life to needless gun violence. NONE.

The problem is it is always “the other guy” that needs to change, yet he has this foundational law as his crutch and political backstop…and he thinks he’s “a good guy,” because he hadn’t killed anyone, locks his guns up, and is a responsible gun owner who follows all the laws!

Make no mistake, there are also people who read 2A who think there are waaaay too many laws that violate their 2A Rights, because of the “infingement” on their rights.

The Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*

That’s the final text, as used by SCOTUS in 2A cases, but some states adopted it without the first and third commas for better readability and understanding …

“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

I thought England was slightly larger than Pennsylvania.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I have fired both rifle and pistol, and had to train to a high standard to be able to do so. I'm certainly not adverse to firearms, but I am totally in favour of proper regulation. As it stands (certainly in a few states) you can go in to a gun shop and buy whatever you want without having to prove you are either sane or that you understand even basic gun safety and that is just f*cked up.

I was out in the US for the Parklands shooting (albeit in a different part of the country), I was also in Dayton Oregon district about a week before the shooting in Ohio, and also Vegas a couple of weeks before that nutter shot all those people from the hotel window. Also last time I was in Ohio I witnessed a heated argument outside a bar where some idiot was flashing his gun around. It wasn't the first argument I'd witnessed where guns were involved. So I absolutely do worry about gun violence when I'm in the US. It is heartbreaking when you see the number of school shootings alone (List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia).

I just wonder what kind of mass shooting event it'g going to take before something is done, but even then I worry that the solution will just be giving 'good people' more guns. The MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR firearms industry have a lot to answer for.

 

[KS55]

Don’t disagree with your issues with it, but only 200+ years of arguing those points so far and we have a SCOTUS that has to read and interpret it.

With a 6-3 Conservative split for the next generation, and with the rules needed for a Constitutional Amendment, it’s not about to change, no matter what I think, you think, or anyone else thinks.

BTW, the whole ”fit for purpose” thing is a British construct.

One thing I don’t understand on Bluemoon is why Brits get all up in arms (pun intended) about 2A knowing that not only is it not about to change, but it’s all happening thousands of miles away in a different country and culture.

Are there not enough other issues in the UK (or wider world) that DO affect their lives, or is it some kind of belief that there is some level of moral superiority in believing that guns should be banned, and they want to display it to allcomers?

Even the title of the thread smacks of condescension and looking down one’s nose at the issue and country. It’s all getting a little boring, but at least the thread will never die, because they’ll be another shooting tomorrow, just as they’ll be another tragic incident much, much closer to their own home that they will have somehow normalized in their own mind.

Oh, no. We share a common humanity and a common language for a start. US culture has an enormous impact here, so it is quite understandable that we comment on all aspects of it.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I thought England was slightly larger than Pennsylvania.

That wasn’t meant to be the primary takeaway, but yes, PA is slightly smaller than England. It is the almost the same size as the 32nd sized state, Mississippi! PA is 33rd!

The bigger issue was that in an election where Biden won the popular vote by over 7M (more than half of the TOTAL votes the Conservatives won in the last election), the actual presidency was won by a few thousand votes in 3 very large states...one of the peculiarities of the American election system.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Oh, no. We share a common humanity and a common language for a start. US culture has an enormous impact here, so it is quite understandable that we comment on all aspects of it.

I must be missing those “all aspects” threads.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I have fired both rifle and pistol, and had to train to a high standard to be able to do so. I'm certainly not adverse to firearms, but I am totally in favour of proper regulation. As it stands (certainly in a few states) you can go in to a gun shop and buy whatever you want without having to prove you are either sane or that you understand even basic gun safety and that is just f*cked up.

I was out in the US for the Parklands shooting (albeit in a different part of the country), I was also in Dayton Oregon district about a week before the shooting in Ohio, and also Vegas a couple of weeks before that nutter shot all those people from the hotel window. Also last time I was in Ohio I witnessed a heated argument outside a bar where some idiot was flashing his gun around. It wasn't the first argument I'd witnessed where guns were involved. So I absolutely do worry about gun violence when I'm in the US. It is heartbreaking when you see the number of school shootings alone (List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia).

I just wonder what kind of mass shooting event it'g going to take before something is done, but even then I worry that the solution will just be giving 'good people' more guns. The MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR firearms industry have a lot to answer for.

January 6th almost created one! Had a few politicians been on the receiving end during the insurrection, it might have driven the (bullet)point home!

 

[Gabriel]

That wasn’t meant to be the primary takeaway, but yes, PA is slightly smaller than England. It is the almost the same size as the 32nd sized state, Mississippi! PA is 33rd!

The bigger issue was that in an election where Biden won the popular vote by over 7M (more than half of the TOTAL votes the Conservatives won in the last election), the actual presidency was won by a few thousand votes in 3 very large states...one of the peculiarities of the American election system.

Indeed, I think Wisconsin was perhaps the third key state, and Biden only won each of those three states by 1 percentage point.