Ref Watch

[mat]

I’m still baffled why VAR didn’t call the Milner foul as clear and obvious therefore prompting an on screen pitch review.

Attwell was in VAR. He was also VAR in the rags match and needed Iain Darke to prompt him into calling the offside goal for Everton.

Says it all.

 

[Chris B]

The defender in question that was covering was VVD and he was about 10 yards away I think, so unlikely to have stopped Foden having a goal scoring opportunity

It is more likely the ref didn't blow and VAR intervene, being that was a high probability of it been classed as outside the box, resulting in a free kick and a sending off.

If he was certain it was in the box then more chance of awarding the penalty. The first contact was a push outside the box and leg contact in the box.

I don’t disagree with any of that, although I’d have to watch it again to see if it was inside or outside. For me it’s a red card either way.

VAR is allowed to intervene in direct red card decisions, so it sounds a bit like you’re saying they didn’t give it because they know they’d get slaughtered by the crowd/media/manager afterwards. I think that’s perfectly likely, but no basis to not give a decision so I was trying to understand how they might justify it.

I also think this highlights one of the potential problems with VAR: refs are scared to give decisions so they leave it to VAR thinking that VAR will correct them if they’re wrong, but VAR can’t always intervene or is reluctant to overrule the ref. The net result is blatant fouls like this Milner one get ignored despite everyone seeing it was a clear foul.

 

[Fiftyyearsandcounting]

Attwell was in VAR. He was also VAR in the rags match and needed Iain Darke to prompt him into calling the offside goal for Everton.

Says it all.

Atwell has been booked to play a part in a Christmas Panto'. Blind Pugh in Treasure Island, he'd be a natural!

 

[blue b4 the moon]

Atwell has been booked to play a part in a Christmas Panto'. Blind Pugh in Treasure Island, he'd be a natural!

Has Marriner decided not to play the part this year then?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I agree on the last man trip, but often these things come down to if there’s a defender who might have been able to cover. There was one vaguely nearby so maybe that’s what they thought.

For the second yellow that wasn’t given, I should’ve been clearer in my original post: they can only intervene for a “direct red card”. Not for second yellows. Nonsensical, but that’s the var rules in the premier league.

Of course, none of this explains why the ref didn’t see it first time round.

No argument from me on those points, I would just add that why didn't the ref go to the monitor and check the last man issue ? Why didn't VAT intervene on a clear and obvious error?

 

[VOOMER]

Broken record time, nothing will change until one of them gets well and truly lamped.

 

[swinton blue]

I don’t disagree with any of that, although I’d have to watch it again to see if it was inside or outside. For me it’s a red card either way.

VAR is allowed to intervene in direct red card decisions, so it sounds a bit like you’re saying they didn’t give it because they know they’d get slaughtered by the crowd/media/manager afterwards. I think that’s perfectly likely, but no basis to not give a decision so I was trying to understand how they might justify it.

I also think this highlights one of the potential problems with VAR: refs are scared to give decisions so they leave it to VAR thinking that VAR will correct them if they’re wrong, but VAR can’t always intervene or is reluctant to overrule the ref. The net result is blatant fouls like this Milner one get ignored despite everyone seeing it was a clear foul.

I don't think the var can get involved once they have decided its outside the area
If the ref had blown for a free kick or penalty the var can look at if its inside or outside the area and because the ref deemed it a free kick the red card can then be ruled on
If the ref doesn't give the free kick the only thing they can var on if it's inside or out.
If its inside then they can rule a foul for a penalty
Once they decided its outside the area they can't rule on if its a free kick or not hence then unable to give the red card for last man because the ref didn't give the free kick.
If they could then every free kick around the pitch would be var

 

[swinton blue]

No argument from me on those points, I would just add that why didn't the ref go to the monitor and check the last man issue ? Why didn't VAT intervene on a clear and obvious error?

Because the ref didn't deem it as a free kick.
Var can't look at if it was a free kick or not. Once they had decided it was outside the area nothing can be done unless the ref had given the free kick to start with

 

[ganganvince]

Because the ref didn't deem it as a free kick.
Var can't look at if it was a free kick or not. Once they had decided it was outside the area nothing can be done unless the ref had given the free kick to start with

VAR can look at a potential red.

 

[swinton blue]

VAR can look at a potential red.

In what way ?
The ref deemed there was no free kick.
I thought var can look at potential reds for dangerous play but with this being a straight forward foul or not var can't rule on it
That's my take on var. I might be way off though

 

[ganganvince]

In what way ?
The ref deemed there was no free kick.
I thought var can look at potential reds for dangerous play but with this being a straight forward foul or not var can't rule on it
That's my take on var. I might be way off though

I am no expert but thought VAR could review any red whether dangerous or denying a goal scoring opportunity if it has been missed by ref.

 

[Coljj]

Phil "The Cat" certainly makes it easier for the ref not to give it. He needs to learn there is a time for staying on your feet or scrambling back up to them (developing counter attacks) and others, when he's fouled in the box or through on goal, to stay down and appeal for the foul straight away and put all eyes on the ref.

 

[swinton blue]

I am no expert but thought VAR could review any red whether dangerous or denying a goal scoring opportunity if it has been missed by ref.

Who knows pal.
We guess and by the looks of it the refs do too

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Because the ref didn't deem it as a free kick.
Var can't look at if it was a free kick or not. Once they had decided it was outside the area nothing can be done unless the ref had given the free kick to start with

Oh well, the bloody rules seem to be there to be used on a an ad hock basis. Not to improve the game.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Phil "The Cat" certainly makes it easier for the ref not to give it. He needs to learn there is a time for staying on your feet or scrambling back up to them (developing counter attacks) and others, when he's fouled in the box or through on goal, to stay down and appeal for the foul straight away and put all eyes on the ref.

Sadly this appears to be the case. Its not the first time his honesty has been punished.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I don’t disagree with any of that, although I’d have to watch it again to see if it was inside or outside. For me it’s a red card either way.

VAR is allowed to intervene in direct red card decisions, so it sounds a bit like you’re saying they didn’t give it because they know they’d get slaughtered by the crowd/media/manager afterwards. I think that’s perfectly likely, but no basis to not give a decision so I was trying to understand how they might justify it.

I also think this highlights one of the potential problems with VAR: refs are scared to give decisions so they leave it to VAR thinking that VAR will correct them if they’re wrong, but VAR can’t always intervene or is reluctant to overrule the ref. The net result is blatant fouls like this Milner one get ignored despite everyone seeing it was a clear foul.

The game would have been over as a contest if Milner has been sent off for that challenge. Wouldn't have been 'good for the product'.

Which begs the question as to how much the media and PL have in the VAR decision making process, despite what they say?

That alone would be corruption amongst the officials.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

It's now two days since the game, we've discussed the so-called "contentious decisions" from every angle, inside out and back to front and we can't see any reason why the ref didn't give Milner 3 yellow cards and 2 reds!!! We are unable even to dream up an excuse for Milner, the ref or VAR. All our attempts have ended in a quagmire oh bulls**t. I'd hate to think this might give any credence to Pep's contention that ref's simply don't send home players off at Anfield or the swamp. That would be tantamount to suggesting that the officials aren't impartial. Before long some of the more extreme will feel free to suggest reasons for this!

 

[Paladin]

In what way ?
The ref deemed there was no free kick.
I thought var can look at potential reds for dangerous play but with this being a straight forward foul or not var can't rule on it
That's my take on var. I might be way off though

This is one of the problems with VAR, meaning it can easily be manipulated by the officials - both on the pitch, and in the VAR room.

In the case of Milner on Foden (also the stonewall penalty for Wolves against United and United's goal in that game), the referee makes an on field decision that there was no foul. Therefore no review, whether or not a foul was committed. No free kick, red card or penalty either.

Alternatively, the referee could instantly award a foul, which could also be a penalty and red card. This has to go to review, and the VAR officials generally come to the correct decision. (Walker against Southampton).

So the referee has nothing to lose by awarding the foul, because it will be corrected it he is wrong, and no damage is done. But by not awarding the foul, there is virtually no opportunity for the decision to be corrected.

United and Liverpool have both had instances of clear fouls by them not being given already this season. On the other hand, City can be penalised at the slightest risk of a transgression, and nothing other than on obvious mistake will be overturned.

The same teams benefit, the same teams suffer. I posted something from United and Liverpool forums recently, in which one fan from each of those clubs had noticed that Liverpool often benefit from refereeing errors and City suffer from them. It amounts to something when the inconsistent refereeing has become so obvious.

 

[Chi-town blues]

The game would have been over as a contest if Milner has been sent off for that challenge. Wouldn't have been 'good for the product'.

Which begs the question as to how much the media and PL have in the VAR decision making process, despite what they say?

That alone would be corruption amongst the officials.

Corruption in multi billion industry? Not having according to some righteous souls.
By the way , PB has compiled a list of corrupt officials but i cant remember the thread .

 

[ballbag]

Corruption in multi billion industry? Not having according to some righteous souls.
By the way , PB has compiled a list of corrupt officials but i cant remember the thread .

Is it this one:

2021–22 Premier League referees

The Select Group is a panel of English professional football referees and assistant referees, appointed by Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). In June 2021, the Premier League announced four referee promotions and one assistant referee promotion ahead of the 2021–22 season. The...

football.fandom.com