COP26

Mancityus said:
If natural gas is subsidized to be cheaper than coal then why would the consumer pick coal. It can be done if there is funding and real willingness to pay up. Right now it is just about blame game and media propaganda.
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Do we need to subsidize the gas though?

We could just have agreements to keep coal in the ground and destroy the market for it besides anything that can't do without in the short term e.g. Steel coking.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Do we need to subsidize the gas though?

We could just have agreements to keep coal in the ground and destroy the market for it besides anything that can't do without in the short term e.g. Steel coking.
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How would power be generated ? Fossil fuels are still around 60% of the source even in US. Renewables constitute maybe 20%. You will need to provide a reasonable alternative power generators could use instead of coal. Again it is feasible to large extent but costs are prohibitive and asking developing nations to bear that which US and Europe cannot back up themselves means no agreement is happening.
 
Mancityus said:
How would power be generated ? Fossil fuels are still around 60% of the source even in US. Renewables constitute maybe 20%. You will need to provide a reasonable alternative power generators could use instead of coal. Again it is feasible to large extent but costs are prohibitive and asking developing nations to bear that which US and Europe cannot back up themselves means no agreement is happening.
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Well there are other benefits to not burning the dirtiest fuel, cleaner cities and less respiratory related health issues.

We can have a cost benefit analysis and destroy all organised human civilisation or we could have collective action.

Will India be asking for humanitarian assistance when coastal areas are underwater, what about their poorer neighbour Bangladesh? Have they given any consideration to them.

It's a failure on all sides.
 
Mancityus said:
What a fucking load of hypocritical bullshit. Destroyed the environment for two centuries and suddenly want rest of World to die silently as them striving to get a better life for themselves is gonna hurt the Environment. US and Europe need to pay up to clean the mess they created.
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This is not true because where is this environmental destruction of the past? 30 years ago the area near me was only fields but today it's only housing estates. Total Co2 emissions in the industrial revolution 100 years ago were nothing compared to what they are now.

It is the rise of the populations of the east that are now driving this problem. The UK population in the 1950's was 58 million, it's now 69 million. In 1950 China had a population of 600 million but it's now nearly treble that. You cannot comprehend what is happening in places like China, it completely dwarves the scale of past western industrialisation.

So yeah we can continue to try to get the UK and others to atone for their sins but that won't stop climate change. China is refusing to budge and India will continue to contribute more as it grows so it's now irrelevant what we do or don't do.

Meanwhile we can build wind turbines and go solar, or even suffer by refusing to eat meat but it will not matter a single bit whilst countries like China increase their contributions. Even if the UK went completely carbon zero tomorrow, that's a 1% decrease in Co2 emissions globally but China is growing that by 5%+ every year!
 
Mancityus said:
What a fucking load of hypocritical bullshit. Destroyed the environment for two centuries and suddenly want rest of World to die silently as them striving to get a better life for themselves is gonna hurt the Environment. US and Europe need to pay up to clean the mess they created.
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I am doing my bit in many ways pal , i cant afford the new type boilers or an electric car , my point was the burden on us is going to push most people into debt , whilst china and india keep using coal it will matter not one jot , they played a blinder at this talking shop
 
kaz7 said:
I am doing my bit in many ways pal , i cant afford the new type boilers or an electric car , my point was the burden on us is going to push most people into debt , whilst china and india keep using coal it will matter not one jot , they played a blinder at this talking shop
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The only reality for us is we need to not only diversify from oil but we need to diversify from foreign/Chinese made products to force countries like China to halt their growth and reduce emissions but it's going to hurt.

I did read a good idea from someone who said we should all get credits to use to buy stuff based upon how emissive it is. For example you get X number of credits to buy meat alongside the amount you have to pay. If you spend your credits then you can't buy any more meat for the week.

Can you imagine this being imposed on people though? We'd all soon change our tune on climate change that's for sure.... We can't even get people to wear masks to stop a virus that kills people.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Do we need to subsidize the gas though?

We could just have agreements to keep coal in the ground and destroy the market for it besides anything that can't do without in the short term e.g. Steel coking.
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Nice in principle Fode but many countries like India and China and Brazil to name but three ( haven't even started with Africa ) will need coal for electricity generation for many years to come.

Take South Africa as one example a population of 60 million and rising quickly.

Most nights 88 per cent of their electricity needs are generated by coal.

Can you imagine how much money they need to reduce that say to 50 per cent by 2050.

Some experts predict Africa's population might reach 2.5 billion by 2050.

Try getting agreements with China , India and many others that the WHO state their should be mandates world wide to bring their starving millions a standard of living 10 per cent of yours and mine.

the bigger problem is population growth and having to keep 80 per cent alive for more than 60 years by 2050.

As serious as climate change is and needs both an industrial , scientific and political solution it will mean little if our population continues to grow at the rate it is for the remainder of the century as more immigrate to all ready industrialised countries.
 
Yestrday Bojo said COP had been held in Edinburgh.
I thought it was Glasgow?
Also 'phasing down' was the same as 'phasing out' when it came to coal use.
Don't think so.
Neither did Alok or China or India.
 
Len Rum said:
Yestrday Bojo said COP had been held in Edinburgh.
I thought it was Glasgow?
Also 'phasing down' was the same as 'phasing out' when it came to coal use.
Don't think so.
Neither did Alok or China or India.
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Boris the king of spin , he would make Shane Warne second guess himself.
 
I see Prince Charles has flown to the Middle East days after lecturing people on the environment at Cop26.
 
vincent said:
I see Prince Charles has flown to the Middle East days after lecturing people on the environment at Cop26.
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How is he supposed to get there? He is doing visits to Middle Eastern States to assist govt policy. Nobody bitched about Truss jetting all over the Far East to celebrate British motorcycle production moved to Singapore and that was during COP 26 whilst her boss attended telling people what they should and shouldn't do.
 
bluethrunthru said:
How is he supposed to get there? He is doing visits to Middle Eastern States to assist govt policy. Nobody bitched about Truss jetting all over the Far East to celebrate British motorcycle production moved to Singapore and that was during COP 26 whilst her boss attended telling people what they should and shouldn't do.
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I can’t take anyone seriously that travels the world on a private jet. He also travels around the U.K. on a private helicopter and plane.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I can't take anybody seriously who thinks the heir to the throne should be travelling on Easy Jet and the Megabus
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To be fair, he wasn’t travelling at the minimum, he was in a 290 seat Voyager that, even though it’s been converted, still emits huge amounts of CO2.

Then there’ll be the cavalcade of vehicles and odd helicopter ride, just seems a little much for somebody trying to save the planet.

Says a lot when my young kids are going vegan, using oat milk, refusing to burn wood or attend bonfires or BBQs, are we out of touch with the young, or they with us?
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
To be fair, he wasn’t travelling at the minimum, he was in a 290 seat Voyager that, even though it’s been converted, still emits huge amounts of CO2.

Then there’ll be the cavalcade of vehicles and odd helicopter ride, just seems a little much for somebody trying to save the planet.

Says a lot when my young kids are going vegan, using oat milk, refusing to burn wood or attend bonfires or BBQs, are we out of touch with the young, or they with us?
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You know what he could do, he could completely abolish the monarchy and become a normal pleb like the rest of us. The same thing applies to all of these celebrities, they could instantly do tons for the climate by giving up their rich lifestyles and redistributing all of their money to climate research/technology/causes.

The fact is though they aren't going to do it and they aren't going to do it just as much as I'm probably not going to give up having a steak this weekend.
 
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