COVID Data Thread

The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Death NOT from Covid, about 11,800.
1st December:
124,500 hospital beds occupied. 5829 by Covid+ patients.
Missed cancer diagnosis since pandemic started. Over 50,000 people walking round with cancer that they don’t know about. Many would have been treatable but many now won’t be. Over 50,000 referrals to child protection agencies missing in the last 12 months.
Public health is not just about a respiratory virus, which is the bit we seem to have forgotten.
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Well said Sir !! I wish more in the NHS would speak out about what is really going on with the public health fiasco.

I had a hospital appointment in Cardiology yesterday and 9 out of the 12 outpatients booked in for the afternoon session failed to turn up !

Apparently its a major problem in why non-Covid backlogs are not shifting, patients simply don't turn up wasting valuable appointments and resources.

Thank you for trying to address the elephant in the room.
Prepare to be attacked by those in denial.
 
ENGLAND HOSPITAL NUMBERS

Yorkshire UP 10 patients today to 875 was the only other serious increase today bar London's 88.

Indeed East up 2 to 622 was the only other region to increase patients.

Midlands was down 32 on 1202 AND North West was down 8 on 848.

Ventilated patients

were also down by 3 on 783 - 9 less than last Thursday.

London was again the biggest riser- up 4 to 199 V 197 last week

North West had the best day here - down 7 to 97 V 102 last week
 
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roubaixtuesday said:
Have you seen Chris Whitty's evisceration of this point at the select committee today?

"The idea that the lockdowns caused the problems with things like cancer is complete inversion of reality. If we had not had the lockdown, the full system would have been in deep, deep trouble"

“This is sometimes said by people who have no understanding of health at all... and when they say it, it's usually because they want to make a political point.”

Ouch.
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Ha ha, when you start quoting Chris Whitty to prove your point you have already lost the argument.
The man has u-turned so many times he's become a whirling dervish.
Lies, damned lies and statistics but you believe whatever makes you feel safe.
 
It's not something fundamental to lockdown tho, is it? It's because we didn't preserve the services, and didn't communicate to people. Anecdotally, getting a GP appointment this year has been dispiritingly close to impractical or impossible. 15 minute waits on the phone. And the GPs aren't making those small decisions to check things out, because of the workload.

Like it or not, COVID infections themselves create a huge workload. Hospital treatment, deaths of loved ones and even a fear that as a society we're not looking after this, it all adds to poor conditions for mental and physical health which will keep cropping down the system.

There's this horrible thing that, whilst I agree with many of the points made by regular posters on here, and even Telegraph correspondants, the overall effect of their communication has an effect on me that I have to watch out for. Like we won't value life. Or we never did. That people die, life is traumatic, blah blah blah boo hoo. Long COVID is just psychosomatic anyway etc. There's nothing anyone can do so stop trying. Every time it recedes, they say it's over. And there's a lot of madness mixed up in that. A lot of stuff that is not at all reasonable to take from the facts in front of us.

But most of all, it is upsetting. No way I'm alone in that - far too experienced to think I'm the only one with that brand of human feeling at my core. And it hurts.... I'm strongly led to believe that makes a difference in health outcomes. There is a sensible balance to be found.

But it's soooo political. We're stuck in complacency / denial / downsizing the risk estimate and then panic stations and dig ourselves out of the hole again. We didn't get to talk after the summer. Got so sick of the extended 'lockdown' that everyone gleefully accepted that it was over and would never return. Yet that was never a good bet - vaccine immunity was not going to last, and the winter would be the winter. Rather than talk it through then, we're now in the same boat, holding off going into winter, afraid of what comes after Christmas. We know what came after last time. Six months of restrictions. Having pushed away all the warning signs in the lead up. Does it have to be so obvious?
 
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Bit weird tonight the two threads seem to have merged into one for exactly the reason I posted data into the other thread a couple of days ago.

It was clear the next week or two were going to be all about the data and its consequences. So I risked posting in there. Now I am getting confused which thread is which and for what.

Hardly matters if everyone is happy and I have resisted telling some this is the data thread and should only have data in it. As that would be rather like the Monty Python sketch asking - Is this the right room for the argument?

Not remotely complaining or getting at anyone. Just amused by how this has come about by a kind of natural osmosis.

Shows as I suspected when I posted in the other thread that discussing Covid and the data behind what was happening now feed off one another in a way they did not maybe a week ago
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Have you seen Chris Whitty's evisceration of this point at the select committee today?

"The idea that the lockdowns caused the problems with things like cancer is complete inversion of reality. If we had not had the lockdown, the full system would have been in deep, deep trouble"

“This is sometimes said by people who have no understanding of health at all... and when they say it, it's usually because they want to make a political point.”

Ouch.
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Have you got that handy to copy and paste as and when people post about what lockdowns cause?
 
Healdplace said:
Bit weird tonight the two threads seem to have merged into one for exactly the reason I posted data into the other thread a couple of days ago.

It was clear the next week or two were going to be all about the data and its consequences. So I risked posting in there. Now I am getting confused which thread is which and for what.

Hardly matters if everyone is happy and I have resisted telling some this is the data thread and should only have data in it. As that would be rather like the Monty Python sketch asking - Is this the right room for the argument?

Not remotely complaining or getting at anyone. Just amused by how this has come about by a kind of natural osmosis.
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Rather like Delta and Omicron, we all know it’s COVID-19 but can’t distinguish one from t’other.
 
Blue Elvis said:
Ha ha, when you start quoting Chris Whitty to prove your point you have already lost the argument.
The man has u-turned so many times he's become a whirling dervish.
Lies, damned lies and statistics but you believe whatever makes you feel safe.
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Doesnt matter who said it. It’s blindingly obvious the first lockdowns did prevent the hospitals being completely overwhelmed and did save lives. It isn’t a debate.
Whether we will need one in the coming months is a debate. Hopefully we won’t.
 
Healdplace said:
Bit weird tonight the two threads seem to have merged into one for exactly the reason I posted data into the other thread a couple of days ago.

It was clear the next week or two were going to be all about the data and its consequences. So I risked posting in there. Now I am getting confused which thread is which and for what.

Hardly matters if everyone is happy and I have resisted telling some this is the data thread and should only have data in it. As that would be rather like the Monty Python sketch asking - Is this the right room for the argument?

Not remotely complaining or getting at anyone. Just amused by how this has come about by a kind of natural osmosis.

Shows as I suspected when I posted in the other thread that discussing Covid and the data behind what was happening now feed off one another in a way they did not maybe a week ago
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It was ridiculous that they ganged up on you in that way. Acting like their brother's keeper, deciding what he should and should not see. Human nature, I'm afraid.
 
A total of 16,439 cases in the Netherlands today and, on average, 285 people have been admitted each day over the last 7 and 48 to ICU. The case totals had been dropping but now appear to be heading north again. Can’t imagine why…
 
Healdplace said:
Just amused by how this has come about by a kind of natural osmosis.
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I've not dived into the contretemps on what exactly constitutes data, but the number of people complaining in various ways about posters posting about covid in threads about covid has been amusing.

[ah yes, it's the data thread. Here you go.

1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34,... ]
 
kaz7 said:
Well there was no need for your figures of non covid on a covid data thread other than to minimise covid , as for the rest ...
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Can I point out that squabbling over covid virus belongs in the other thread. There are thousands of pages repeating the same argument !
 
blueparrot said:
Doesnt matter who said it. It’s blindingly obvious the first lockdowns did prevent the hospitals being completely overwhelmed and did save lives. It isn’t a debate.
Whether we will need one in the coming months is a debate. Hopefully we won’t.
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It's also blindingly obvious that sending elderly Covid patients to die in care homes freed a lot of hospital beds that ultimately weren't needed ( like the empty Nightingale hospitals) because the hospitals were never overwhelmed.

There will be a reckoning one day and just like the German people who turned a blind eye to the treatment of the Jews by the Nazis we will be ashamed about what we allowed to happen.

There won't be " a debate " because only one side are given the opportunity to present their opinion.
 
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