Russian invasion of Ukraine

Chevelle said:
It doesn't make any sense for them to invade but he has cornered himself now.. he walks he looks weak and Putin is a humongous ego with a lot of pride he would rather send thousand to their death than have his insecurities be challenged.
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Putin controls the Russian narrative, so there is no chance of him coming out losing, even if he walks this back!

Attack and they walk into Ukraine and a weak Europe will shake their heads and wring their hands.

Don’t attack and Putin will have his narrative ready to go…large diplomatic gains, assurances from Europe on NATO expansion (which wasn’t going to happen anyway!).

Meanwhile, ALL THE VIDEO is showing Putin flexing Russia’s military might and him being feted by every major European leader!!!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Putin controls the Russian narrative, so there is no chance of him coming out losing, even if he walks this back!

Attack and they walk into Ukraine and a weak Europe will shake their heads and wring their hands.

Don’t attack and Putin will have his narrative ready to go…large diplomatic gains, assurances from Europe on NATO expansion (which wasn’t going to happen anyway!).

Meanwhile, ALL THE VIDEO is showing Putin flexing Russia’s military might and him being feted by every major European leader!!!
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There was, I thought, an interesting theory put forward by someone in the Ukrainian government (Foreign minister possibly?) that a westward looking Ukraine will prosper in time - this will have their Russian brothers and sisters questioning their leadership leading to unrest etc etc etc, and this was a strong motivating factor for Putin. It’s about survival of the regime - so I don’t necessarily agree he can walk back and not lose, perhaps in the short term.
 
SWP's back said:
So you think Putin is worried that NATO will first strike attack Russia?
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NATO countries have already engaged in illegal invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite what we read in our media, we have set a precedent and I wouldn’t trust NATO either if I was Russia.

I read an interesting book on countries and Geography, it was saying there hasn’t been major war between India and China over all the centuries because of the mountains between them, it also said because Russia is so flat they’ve always had to defend itself through expansion.

I think Russia doesn’t trust NATO at all and it wants the buffer.

I’m pretty sure they’ll go in this week, purely based on the fact they’ve moved blood in.
 
bluesteel said:
NATO countries have already engaged in illegal invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite what we read in our media, we have set a precedent and I wouldn’t trust NATO either if I was Russia.

I read an interesting book on countries and Geography, it was saying there hasn’t been major war between India and China over all the centuries because of the mountains between them, it also said because Russia is so flat they’ve always had to defend itself through expansion.

I think Russia doesn’t trust NATO at all and it wants the buffer.

I’m pretty sure they’ll go in this week, purely based on the fact they’ve moved blood in.
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WTF?

This is a typical idiotic analysis from the RIght.

Let's get real here for a moment.

Russia doesn't trust NATO. 100% agree. NATO was set up to counter attacks in Europe against Democratic governments.

The truth of the matter though is that NATO nations would never ever ever ever initiate war against Russia... Russia has nuclear weapons - it's idiotic to do so.

Thus the pretext for invasion of neighboring countries on the basis of existential threat - is just a cover - which idiot media on the Right - buys into. NATO will never invade Russia on its own so long as Russia does not attack a NATO nation. This is obvious and Putin knows full well that this is so.
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The actual truth of the matter is that you have an expansionist government under Putin - hoping to extend its influence as a primary goal. Let's see if we can invade Crimea - that went spectacularly well. Next up - let's see if we can invade the Ukraine.
 
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bluesteel said:
NATO countries have already engaged in illegal invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite what we read in our media, we have set a precedent and I wouldn’t trust NATO either if I was Russia.

I read an interesting book on countries and Geography, it was saying there hasn’t been major war between India and China over all the centuries because of the mountains between them, it also said because Russia is so flat they’ve always had to defend itself through expansion.

I think Russia doesn’t trust NATO at all and it wants the buffer.

I’m pretty sure they’ll go in this week, purely based on the fact they’ve moved blood in.
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This buffer argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny though when they have both Estonia and Latvia on the border who are both NATO members. The only difference being that Ukraine is better for a land invasion - but no one can seriously believe that NATO would invade Russia with tanks, life on earth would all be over by tea time. Nor would NATO come to the aid of an aggressive NATO member Ukraine who launched an attack on Russia. NATO is mutual defence not mutual destruction.

NATO had no role in the first or second Iraq war - some NATO members did, and some non-NATO members. That is an entirely different chain of command so to say you wouldn’t trust NATO as a consequence is a bit of a leap.

I agree with you on Afghanistan - it was a lot of tub thumbing at the time of triggering the NATO mutual defence protocol which struck me then as a bit weird. To try and make it legal NATO made it a humanitarian mission which was a stretch when the target wasn’t to liberate the people of an oppressive government but rather a terrorist organisation within a sovereign state. Bush was a proper little warrior - small man syndrome - bit like Putin really.

Given the Russians have de facto closed off access to the Black Sea for live firing drills for the next fortnight would suggest it will happen during this time or not at all.
 
blueinsa said:
What are you waffling on about now?

How you read his post and immediately come out with that I will never know?
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With any luck whatsoever you'll wake up to the threat of Russia at some point where they dare to invade England.

As far as the Russia is flat and needs to protect itself against a west-leaning Ukraine - that's argument is so full of holes it's amazing that anyone - other than simpletons - buys into it.
 
metalblue said:
What a weird post
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Are you a Russian troll? Or simply disconnected from reality?

Beats me - point being that Russia is an ultra aggressive foreign power lead by a de facto dictator in Putin who is a monsterous criminal caring only about self and nationhood. Yet you don't get that and instead support Russian talking points about the threat from the Ukraine and so forth, buying into the Russian narrative.

Again - NATO and a West leaning Ukraine poses zero threat to Russia - NATO would never initiate war against Russia.

As far as the bullshit argument about proximity goes - i.e., that The Ukraine is on the border and thus poses special risk - that's all bullshit, as a moment's consideration will reveal.

Modern warfare is carried out by aerial assaults and possibly by long range (nuclear) weapons. Proximity only matters here in that if nuclear weapons were deployed in a proximate neighbor, there would be correspondingly less time to react.
 
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bluesteel said:
NATO countries have already engaged in illegal invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite what we read in our media, we have set a precedent and I wouldn’t trust NATO either if I was Russia.

I read an interesting book on countries and Geography, it was saying there hasn’t been major war between India and China over all the centuries because of the mountains between them, it also said because Russia is so flat they’ve always had to defend itself through expansion.

I think Russia doesn’t trust NATO at all and it wants the buffer.

I’m pretty sure they’ll go in this week, purely based on the fact they’ve moved blood in.
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Prisoners of Geography by Tim Marshall covers this sort of area. Great book.
 
metalblue said:
I’m just curious why you hope the UK will be invaded by Russia.

Let’s try this:

me: I hope Russia invaded the US
you: WTF
me: Russian troll

Like I say, weird
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Your inability to draw inferences from written matter is alarming woeful. But carry on. Go ahead and support the Russian side and back their right to invade The Ukraine.
 
bluesteel said:
NATO countries have already engaged in illegal invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan. Despite what we read in our media, we have set a precedent and I wouldn’t trust NATO either if I was Russia.

I read an interesting book on countries and Geography, it was saying there hasn’t been major war between India and China over all the centuries because of the mountains between them, it also said because Russia is so flat they’ve always had to defend itself through expansion.

I think Russia doesn’t trust NATO at all and it wants the buffer.

I’m pretty sure they’ll go in this week, purely based on the fact they’ve moved blood in.
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What benefit does NATO gain by invading Russia?

What purpose does NATO have for invading Russia?

Where is the evidence that NATO has been building up forces for an invasion of Russia?

You're comparing two situations that bear no resemblance to each other. Russia has already annexed part of Ukraine. Ukraine wants to join NATO. Russia has no right to decide what Ukraine does. Ukraine is not merely a "buffer".
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Your inability to draw inferences from written matter is alarming woeful. But carry on. Go ahead and support the Russian side and back their right to invade The Ukraine.
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It's Ukraine, not "The Ukraine"

You don't say The Germany or The France. "The Ukraine" is an obsolete Soviet/Cold War era term used to make Ukrainians feel owned by Russia, they hate it.
 
metalblue said:
Try using punctuation then maybe I will understand your ramblings.

I support Russia? lol. You should get some sleep pumpkin.
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>> Try using punctuation then maybe I will understand your ramblings.
I doubt it. First off, there's ample punctuation above. Secondly, I corrected "you're" to "your" almost immediate and prior to this post.

As far as you supporting Russia - it Goddamn looks 100% that you do so.

Either way, you have bought in 100% to the Russian-pushed propaganda narrative - you're basically a sucker.
 
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