Russian invasion of Ukraine

Indaparkside said:
We won’t win them anyway we’re bottlers:)
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Don`t bet against your post being deleted. I made the mistake of saying in the Pep Performances,when someone asked had Pep placed a £100 bet on us to lose it to Liverpool.
The MOD (whoever he was) removed it, as I casually joked that likewise Pep maybe saw us bottling it !! ;)
Some Mods don`t do humour. ;)
 
petrusha said:
I live in Russia and have deep ties with the country. I studied the language and culture for my first degree, and have spent the bulk of my adult life here. I have a Russian wife and family, speak Russian all the time at home, and have numerous Russian friends, colleagues and acquaintances.

I don't generally comment on Russian political affairs on here or anywhere online, but in my offline life am usually considered a dangerous opponent of the Russian regime by friends and family here yet if not an apologist for it then someone unduly sympathetic to it by those close to me in the UK. I've always tended to the view that this marks me out as someone who's well informed about what's really going on in Russian but can see events from a Russian perspective as well. FWIW, I've always loathed the current Russian political leadership, though.

Until the last day or two, the sources here that I respect and generally trust (but would be little-known in the UK) were suggesting that we shouldn't place too much trust in reports and statements from western government, intelligence and media sources that war is imminent. I've now started to reconsider this view and am worried and depressed at what might happen in the coming days. I decidedly fear the worst.

Of course, I think an invasion would be a policy of evil on a humanitarian level. I also believe that, strategically, it's catastrophically misguided from a Russian perspective - it will be hugely damaging to the interests of the Russian people, who are kept in line by a combination of egregious but skilled propaganda and largely insidious but occasionally vicious repression.

Now, in my career, I styled myself as a Russia specialist, doing so when generally there was optimism that, whatever bumps on the road may lie ahead, the final destination would be to the country's immense benefit. When I think of how this country could have got to the place where we now stand, with Russia on the verge of rightly being cast as a pariah state (which will also have consequences for my livelihood, though I expect and deserve no sympathy), I find this analysis quite astute: Alexander Gabuev writes from Moscow on why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war - The Economist

Really, I came here and offered the preceding rambling commentary just to commend that piece to you. It's behind a paywall, but you can gain access to it and other articles simply by registering. For those who can't be arsed, the answer lies in the following subtitle: "[A tiny band of elites] have hijacked Russia and conflated the country's interests with their own." I just thought people might be interested in a view from here as to what's unfolding.

Sometimes I wonder how the population here isn't up in arms at the travesties being perpetrated by the government in their name. That's an entirely separate debate, I suppose, but I reckon the answer is probably that this lot are KGB and so wrote the textbook on how to keep a nation cowed and submissive even when most of it despises the leadership.
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All very interesting and I will have a look at the articles you linked. Can you confirm if Russians regard a large round soft bread roll with either chips or bacon in as a muffin or a barm, and wether Ukrainians share this view?
 
petrusha said:
I live in Russia and have deep ties with the country. I studied the language and culture for my first degree, and have spent the bulk of my adult life here. I have a Russian wife and family, speak Russian all the time at home, and have numerous Russian friends, colleagues and acquaintances.

I don't generally comment on Russian political affairs on here or anywhere online, but in my offline life am usually considered a dangerous opponent of the Russian regime by friends and family here yet if not an apologist for it then someone unduly sympathetic to it by those close to me in the UK. I've always tended to the view that this marks me out as someone who's well informed about what's really going on in Russian but can see events from a Russian perspective as well. FWIW, I've always loathed the current Russian political leadership, though.

Until the last day or two, the sources here that I respect and generally trust (but would be little-known in the UK) were suggesting that we shouldn't place too much trust in reports and statements from western government, intelligence and media sources that war is imminent. I've now started to reconsider this view and am worried and depressed at what might happen in the coming days. I decidedly fear the worst.

Of course, I think an invasion would be a policy of evil on a humanitarian level. I also believe that, strategically, it's catastrophically misguided from a Russian perspective - it will be hugely damaging to the interests of the Russian people, who are kept in line by a combination of egregious but skilled propaganda and largely insidious but occasionally vicious repression.

Now, in my career, I styled myself as a Russia specialist, doing so when generally there was optimism that, whatever bumps on the road may lie ahead, the final destination would be to the country's immense benefit. When I think of how this country could have got to the place where we now stand, with Russia on the verge of rightly being cast as a pariah state (which will also have consequences for my livelihood, though I expect and deserve no sympathy), I find this analysis quite astute: Alexander Gabuev writes from Moscow on why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war - The Economist

Really, I came here and offered the preceding rambling commentary just to commend that piece to you. It's behind a paywall, but you can gain access to it and other articles simply by registering. For those who can't be arsed, the answer lies in the following subtitle: "[A tiny band of elites] have hijacked Russia and conflated the country's interests with their own." I just thought people might be interested in a view from here as to what's unfolding.

Sometimes I wonder how the population here isn't up in arms at the travesties being perpetrated by the government in their name. That's an entirely separate debate, I suppose, but I reckon the answer is probably that this lot are KGB and so wrote the textbook on how to keep a nation cowed and submissive even when most of it despises the leadership.
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Thank you for a genuine perspective which echoes my own. This is not a Russian war, this is all about the powers that run the country with scant regard for the Russian people.
 
As it looks as though we will enter a period of conflict with Russia, I wonder what everyone, who voted Conservative, now thinks of the Tory policy of privatising Gas and Electricity, and the failure to renew Gas storage facilities?

Also as China has aligned themselves with Russia , how will we produce steel when the Chinese hold and own the keys to the steel foundries?

Just a few thoughts.
 
Looks like Today might be the Day!
A Genuine question, is Sunday a good day to start a war?
Plus how long will it take one of their long range missiles to get here.?
 
petrusha said:
I live in Russia and have deep ties with the country. I studied the language and culture for my first degree, and have spent the bulk of my adult life here. I have a Russian wife and family, speak Russian all the time at home, and have numerous Russian friends, colleagues and acquaintances.

I don't generally comment on Russian political affairs on here or anywhere online, but in my offline life am usually considered a dangerous opponent of the Russian regime by friends and family here yet if not an apologist for it then someone unduly sympathetic to it by those close to me in the UK. I've always tended to the view that this marks me out as someone who's well informed about what's really going on in Russian but can see events from a Russian perspective as well. FWIW, I've always loathed the current Russian political leadership, though.

Until the last day or two, the sources here that I respect and generally trust (but would be little-known in the UK) were suggesting that we shouldn't place too much trust in reports and statements from western government, intelligence and media sources that war is imminent. I've now started to reconsider this view and am worried and depressed at what might happen in the coming days. I decidedly fear the worst.

Of course, I think an invasion would be a policy of evil on a humanitarian level. I also believe that, strategically, it's catastrophically misguided from a Russian perspective - it will be hugely damaging to the interests of the Russian people, who are kept in line by a combination of egregious but skilled propaganda and largely insidious but occasionally vicious repression.

Now, in my career, I styled myself as a Russia specialist, doing so when generally there was optimism that, whatever bumps on the road may lie ahead, the final destination would be to the country's immense benefit. When I think of how this country could have got to the place where we now stand, with Russia on the verge of rightly being cast as a pariah state (which will also have consequences for my livelihood, though I expect and deserve no sympathy), I find this analysis quite astute: Alexander Gabuev writes from Moscow on why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war - The Economist

Really, I came here and offered the preceding rambling commentary just to commend that piece to you. It's behind a paywall, but you can gain access to it and other articles simply by registering. For those who can't be arsed, the answer lies in the following subtitle: "[A tiny band of elites] have hijacked Russia and conflated the country's interests with their own." I just thought people might be interested in a view from here as to what's unfolding.

Sometimes I wonder how the population here isn't up in arms at the travesties being perpetrated by the government in their name. That's an entirely separate debate, I suppose, but I reckon the answer is probably that this lot are KGB and so wrote the textbook on how to keep a nation cowed and submissive even when most of it despises the leadership.
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Thank you so much for your insights.. I really don't understand the inner workings of Russia and never really understood why their people didn't remove Putin. But this does shed some light on why he has been around for so long now. What is the end game here? Put a Puppet in ukraine? Hold land captive to get concessions? Just permanently Annex more land to slowly take the entire country?
 
Just a reminder how much of an enable to all this Johnson and the Tories have been

westcountryvoices.co.uk

Barbarians at the gates? The Russia Report and why it matters

At long last, we can read the Russia Report prepared last year by the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC). Boris Johnson had gone to extraordinary lengths to prevent this document ever seeing the light of day, and succeeded in blocking its release before the general election...
westcountryvoices.co.uk westcountryvoices.co.uk
 
bluethrunthru said:
Just a reminder how much of an enable to all this Johnson and the Tories have been

westcountryvoices.co.uk

Barbarians at the gates? The Russia Report and why it matters

At long last, we can read the Russia Report prepared last year by the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC). Boris Johnson had gone to extraordinary lengths to prevent this document ever seeing the light of day, and succeeded in blocking its release before the general election...
westcountryvoices.co.uk westcountryvoices.co.uk
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Enabler to what? A Russian invasion of Ukraine? Lol
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
As it looks as though we will enter a period of conflict with Russia, I wonder what everyone, who voted Conservative, now thinks of the Tory policy of privatising Gas and Electricity, and the failure to renew Gas storage facilities?

Also as China has aligned themselves with Russia , how will we produce steel when the Chinese hold and own the keys to the steel foundries?

Just a few thoughts.
Click to expand...

Is there any topic folk won’t try and dig the Tories out on?

We don’t get much gas from Russia - global prices aren’t dictated to by 30 year old Tory privatisation policies!!! Storage facilities held at most two weeks of gas … once we use it we have to replace it - only useful to manage very short term price spikes which you can effectively do with swap trades.

Chinese companies won’t do that but let’s pretend they will we can either buy the little steel we produce from elsewhere (unless China owns world steel production but that kinda of would kill you point of it being a Tory issue) or just I don’t know tell them to fuck off and cut the padlock and produce steel.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Just a reminder how much of an enable to all this Johnson and the Tories have been

westcountryvoices.co.uk

Barbarians at the gates? The Russia Report and why it matters

At long last, we can read the Russia Report prepared last year by the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC). Boris Johnson had gone to extraordinary lengths to prevent this document ever seeing the light of day, and succeeded in blocking its release before the general election...
westcountryvoices.co.uk westcountryvoices.co.uk
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He is saying what many have put before but unable to due to lack of interest from those that influence the country.
 
petrusha said:
The big linguistic bread debate in Russian centres round what to call a small white loaf. As with other small differences in language, it's a St Petersburg v Moscow thing - bulka v baton.

Not sure what the Ukrainians call it, because it's so long since I was there. I have always admired the fact, though, that their national dish, salo, is basically lard!



I sometimes wonder how people are so passive here. In the Soviet days, most people were seriously unhappy with the regime, but settled into a sullen acceptance that they were stuck with it and resistance was futile. A lot of people think like that now, as well.

But approval ratings for the current leadership are surprisingly (to me) high, even though living standards have been falling ever since 2014. I suppose the pushing in basically all media of dishonest propaganda about everyone else being out to get them coupled with nationalistic tubthumping has its effect.
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Things will not change overnight due to the fact that every time somebody tries to, they are either locked up or disappear off the face of the earth. I actually think we are going the same way over here, with many just accepting of their place in society and ignoring all the stuff that goes on.
 
metalblue said:
Enabler to what? A Russian invasion of Ukraine? Lol
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The West has enabled Putin and the regime to a large extent. London and New York is home to a lot of Russian money, Germany with its energy needs.

The Times is running a story about Tory donors with direct access to Johnson in exchange for cash and it includes a Russian with links to Putin.

Much as Johnson is burbling about ‘getting tough’, no one buys it because Johnson always talks a good game rather than delivering one, which, conversely, does make you wonder why any donor would spend good money in exchange for a Johnson promise :)

Joking aside, our system has the increasingly rotten stench of corruption.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Latest news & breaking headlines

The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment.
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
 
Russian history and contemporary politics are nigh on impossible for us in the UK to understand. That is no justification for any war.

I think this will end with invasion into Eastern territories, the reduction in size of Ukraine as a country which may join NATO. Both sides will claim justification for their actions, and both will have a refreshed bogeyman for years to come.
 
shemnel said:
Russian history and contemporary politics are nigh on impossible for us in the UK to understand. That is no justification for any war.

I think this will end with invasion into Eastern territories, the reduction in size of Ukraine as a country which may join NATO. Both sides will claim justification for their actions, and both will have a refreshed bogeyman for years to come.
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Agree about the invasion. DIsagree about whatever is left of The Ukraine from joining NATO.
 
BobKowalski said:
The West has enabled Putin and the regime to a large extent. London and New York is home to a lot of Russian money, Germany with its energy needs.

The Times is running a story about Tory donors with direct access to Johnson in exchange for cash and it includes a Russian with links to Putin.

Much as Johnson is burbling about ‘getting tough’, no one buys it because Johnson always talks a good game rather than delivering one, which, conversely, does make you wonder why any donor would spend good money in exchange for a Johnson promise :)

Joking aside, our system has the increasingly rotten stench of corruption.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Latest news & breaking headlines

The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment.
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
Our system is the same as it has always been. It is a fair system of democracy that is perfectly fair. Rich donors give donations to the Tory party and unions fund the labour party
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The Future’s Blue! said:
Things will not change overnight due to the fact that every time somebody tries to, they are either locked up or disappear off the face of the earth. I actually think we are going the same way over here, with many just accepting of their place in society and ignoring all the stuff that goes on.
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It is funny how the working class people that I know who have done well, have done so from hard work. There is not some kind of glass ceiling or rich society that prevents people doing well. Equally we couldn't live in a freer society. Give me an example of someone being locked up or disappearing for legally disagreeing with the government?
 
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