I think that is the most diplomatic solution and for the life of me I can not understand why this has not be agreed by both sides as a way out of this mess.I appreciate that I am ignoring the Ukrainian's wishes here, but for the benefit of peace for their nation surely they can see this is a good all round solution too ??Ukraine should just offer assurances that it won’t request to join NATO. The west won’t fight a nuclear war over Ukraine and they don’t stand a chance by themselves. Better to take the pragmatic position for the benefit of its population.
Erm joint forces just left a country to be overun by extemists, nations have watched several african countries be decimated by civil wars and tutted at a military junta taking over burma while having good relations with a military dictatorship in thailand and murderous loons run brasil and the philippines
this shit happens all the time in this day and age.
So Ukraine can burn or cease to exist, but at least the west can say they didn’t concede… What exactly does Ukraine get out of that?Effectively concede to Putin’s demands and deny Ukraine its right to join NATO. When did we become so weak and cowardly.
I get that..... but why? Does he have kids? Any war..... once one nuke is fired then it will be Guy Fawkes night all over the show.His life’s mission is to destabilise Europe and the US, to make us weak, to even see us off in war.
He’s been destabilising Europe and the US for two decades. He even told us what he wanted to do in 2007 in Munich.
It’s power that makes him tick, not money.
I think that is the most diplomatic solution and for the life of me I can not understand why this has not be agreed by both sides as a way out of this mess.I appreciate that I am ignoring the Ukrainian's wishes here, but for the benefit of peace for their nation surely they can see this is a good all round solution too ??
Do you honestly think that’s all Putin wants?Ukraine should just offer assurances that it won’t request to join NATO. The west won’t fight a nuclear war over Ukraine and they don’t stand a chance by themselves. Better to take the pragmatic position for the benefit of its population.
Go on then, what issues would arise?
NATO isn’t going to start all out world war over a wayward missile, so what would really happen? Bluster, lots of “now this is your last warning” etc.
I’ve been saying for years that Russia has had its tentacles all over each side of every argument that’s gone on in the West.So is that why he financed the Brexit campaign ; )
Because that’s not what Putin wants. He wants a client state on its western border.I think that is the most diplomatic solution and for the life of me I can not understand why this has not be agreed by both sides as a way out of this mess.I appreciate that I am ignoring the Ukrainian's wishes here, but for the benefit of peace for their nation surely they can see this is a good all round solution too ??
Ukraine has been worried about Russia for decades and it’s why they were thinking of joining NATO.Ukraine should just offer assurances that it won’t request to join NATO. The west won’t fight a nuclear war over Ukraine and they don’t stand a chance by themselves. Better to take the pragmatic position for the benefit of its population.
Churchillian, you are not!Would you be willing to die against odds that cant be overcome?
Not for me, pointless.
Would you be willing to die against odds that cant be overcome?
Not for me, pointless.
Has it gone past that now. Putin has showed his hand in wanting Ukraine. Cannot see him withdrawing on the basis Ukraine promises not to join NATOI think that is the most diplomatic solution and for the life of me I can not understand why this has not be agreed by both sides as a way out of this mess.I appreciate that I am ignoring the Ukrainian's wishes here, but for the benefit of peace for their nation surely they can see this is a good all round solution too ??
I doubt it would have made a difference, the whole 'nato' thing was a red herring.
Putin wants the Soviet Union back together.
It depends who he picks to say it, doesn’t it?Has it gone past that now. Putin has showed his hand in wanting Ukraine. Cannot see him withdrawing on the basis Ukraine promises not to join NATO
I hate to break it to you, but Russia is hardly the first country to invade another. The west are far from innocent in this regard. Nevertheless, I don’t think anyone is claiming that Ukraine doesn’t have the right to join whatever alliance it wants. It is now in a position where it must choose between the path that has brought about its invasion or to negotiate its way out.Why because of a bully Ukraine has every right to join nato like we have, we don’t live in the 1940’s where one man can try and invade a sovereign country
Put the were in NATO so won't happen bit aside
If another country invaded the UK would you fight to protect it, or surrender and let them occupy and rule?
Most would fight, some would not.
I don’t know, possibly not. But what harm is there taking him at his word? Unless you believe that Ukraine can win this war, what do they stand to lose by calling his possible bluff?Do you honestly think that’s all Putin wants?