Russian invasion of Ukraine

Russian banks have been cut off from the US financial markets. It will be interesting to see what happens to the $1 trillion of US currency those Banks hold. If it's electronic it is now worth $0 until normality returns. If its paper they could exchange it via Iran or China.
Russian banks hold a couple of £100 billion of UK currency. Now worth zero for the same reason.
That said Russian sovereign debt is also worth 0 for the same reason. Its a good trade off though for the UK and US
 
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Chippy_boy said:
Although I cannot stand Trump and have zero respect for him whatsoever, I genuinely believe Ukraine would not have been invaded had Trump still been president? Why? Because he would have threatened Putin with military action, possibly even a nuclear response, and he is barking mad enough that Putin would not have dared risk it.
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He absolutely would not have done that at all.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
www.nytimes.com

Premier Says Fraud Tainted Ukraine Vote (Published 2010)

Yulia V. Tymoshenko said that she would not concede in the country's presidential election, saying that more than one million votes were falsified in the balloting.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

May the best manipulator win : 2004 and 2010 Ukrainian presidential elections revisited

Ukraine is currently in the throes of revolution. Will this popular uprising move Ukraine closer to the West and a democratic government or strengthen the country's ties to Putin and Russia? Viktor Yanukovich's second round victory in the 2004 presidential election was nullified by Ukraine's...
repositories.lib.utexas.edu repositories.lib.utexas.edu

“Unfortunately, a new evaluation of both the 2004 and 2010 elections presents a much less encouraging view of Ukrainian politics. As shown in this paper, electoral manipulation was present in both the 2004 and 2010 elections.”

Don’t accuse me of literally doing something I’ve literally not done, ta.

And in 2014
voxukraine.org

Election fraud in 2014 Parliamentary Elections

On October 26, 2014, Ukraine had snap elections to Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine’s parliament. A key reason for the snap elections...
voxukraine.org voxukraine.org

edition.cnn.com

Polls close in eastern Ukraine amid allegations of fraud and double-voting | CNN

Polls closed Sunday in eastern Ukraine in controversial referendums held by pro-Russian activists.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
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You are though! Other than the Star Wars ladies claim, it was praised by all international observers.

They’re was no problem until he backed out of the EU trade deal and took a 15billion loan deal from Russia instead.
 
Citizen Green said:
Ask the majority of people in the Baltic States, Ukraine, Poland etc where these weapons are now stationed, if they prefer life today or when they were either directly incorporated into the USSR, or a satellite of it? In fact the last time the Ukrainians were subject to Russian rule, 3,900,000 of them were starved to death in Russian collectivisation policies, which are now widely recognised as a genocide, the Holodomor.

Putin doesn't lash out as some sort of preventative measure against NATO expansion, Ukraine can't even currently join NATO, because they have an ongoing conflict on the ground which directly prevents them from doing so. Putin lashes out because he harks back for a Russian dominated sphere of Eastern Europe. If you read his own words he call's the USSR's dissolution & loss of influence over these territories the greatest geopolitical catastrophe in history. His actions in Georgia in 2008 & Crimea in 2014 are more examples of his intention, fuelled by the above, to subject them to Moscow's rule. If he touches Ukraine, the likes of Finland, Sweden will be straight into NATO, directly contradicting his modus operandi, it's a fallacy.

Also Russia might well have done most of the fighting on the ground in WW2, an incredible feat no doubt, but most of the weaponry they were using to do it, weather it be small arms, trucks, aircraft, oil, or any other logistics, were provided directly from the USA through the Lend Lease Act, totalling $11.3b in 1941. The Russians were on the brink before this, an act that is often forgotten in modern history. No weapons/logistics = they can't fight & capitulate. See below for arms & equipment sent before the US even directly joined the war:
  • 400,000 jeeps & trucks
  • 14,000 airplanes
  • 8,000 tractors
  • 13,000 tanks
  • 1.5 million blankets
  • 15 million pairs of army boots
  • 107,000 tons of cotton
  • 2.7 million tons of petrol products
  • 4.5 million tons of food
Like you btw, I don't believe the US to be some sort of holier than thou nation that should dictate world affairs. As you fairly state their handling of the Middle East after 9/11 is a prime example. But, this is about protecting a sovereign nation from blatant modern Russian imperialism. Putin will never be satisfied as his previous actions dictate. Munich '38 is the history lesson that shows, you can't continually give into despots, as they will inevitably keep demanding more.
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Took some stick for this when I posted it with a few saying the West were looking for war & to but out. Now you see the real side of that despot in Moscow, he cares not a jot about ‘NATO expansion on the border’, repeated efforts were made to resolve this diplomatically. He holds a deep, resentful grudge on how the USSR collapsed & holds the West directly responsible for it, he’s now making up for lost time. We just have to hope his next move isn’t on a former USSR client/republic now in NATO.

Finally, Belarus deserve just as many sanctions for allowing Putin to use his forces to invade through their territory, the horrible shithouses. Prayers with the Ukrainian people.
 
Citizen Green said:
Took some stick for this when I posted it with a few saying the West were looking for war & to but out. Now you see the real side of that despot in Moscow, he cares not a jot about ‘NATO expansion on the border’, repeated efforts were made to resolve this diplomatically. He holds a deep, resentful grudge on how the USSR collapsed & holds the West directly responsible for it, he’s now making up for lost time. We just have to hope his next move isn’t on a former USSR client/republic now in NATO.

Finally, Belarus deserve just as many sanctions for allowing Putin to use his forces to invade through their territory, the horrible shithouses. Prayers with the Ukrainian people.
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Please watch this if you want to understand the difference in opinion.

 
Oldham Exile said:
Fucking non-stop with you

Can this thread not focus on the events in the Ukraine?

There are so many other threads to score these points

The hatred/dislike for Johnson and the Tories is widespread amongst us - but does it need to be distracting this thread?
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It is all very much connected. There is ample evidence of Putin destabilizing the West, Brexit Russia report, US elections, Trump etc. That has been instrumental in helping create the Populist leaders and that fucking whole divide between people and even with families. There is less and less nuance, compromise, perspective, tolerance etc and countries like Russia and China exploit this.
London is awash with dirty money stolen from the Russian people. Johnson and his disaster capitalist Brexit mates are benefitting from the fact that barely nothing is owned by US the people anymore.
Johnson, Garage, Trump, Bolsonaro etc have all tolerated and benefitted from Putin and his dirty money.
What has happened so far is horrible but I hope it does not distract from getting rid of the most corrupt, amoral and untruthful PM we have ever had. Of course, the UK must be a voice for an independent Ukraine, must support the Ukrainians in their struggle but also must clean up their dirty links with Putin - but other than that, what else can we do?
So, sorry Oldham Exile, getting rid of Johnson and his corrupt acolytes is very much connected with reversing the tide of self interest trumping honesty and decency
I do hope we can support those poor Ukrainian refugees and suffering families and children that are always the unwitting casualties and as we do I hope we can also expose and condemn Johnson and the US for abandoning millions of Afghans to starve.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Although I cannot stand Trump and have zero respect for him whatsoever, I genuinely believe Ukraine would not have been invaded had Trump still been president? Why? Because he would have threatened Putin with military action, possibly even a nuclear response, and he is barking mad enough that Putin would not have dared risk it.
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I doubt that, Trump would be forced to denounce it publicly but any sanctions would be timid, he would most likely use it to put troops on the Mexican border and start his own 'Peace Keeping Mission'.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
This is what happens when it's anybody but Trump in the election....at least he beat Trump, can you imagine what this telecast would have been like if he'd still been in the White House.
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Yeah, definitely preferable to the Tangoed twat.
 
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