Russian invasion of Ukraine

bluesteel said:
Sure and Putin probably is a megalomaniac.

Russia have had a military base in Crimea for centuries, it’s where they have their Black Sea fleet, and is of massive strategic import should the need come for them to defend themselves.

Since the break up of the USSR Russia have leased the naval base from Ukraine.

When it looked like the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU and more pertinently NATO it would have meant Russia losing the naval base and having a US naval base there in it’s place.

There was also the likelihood of a US military base and missile system going into Ukraine.

These are the facts as I see them.

When Russia lost its puppet president in Ukraine in the 2014 coup, the writing was on the wall that they would join NATO as they were provisionally accepted in 2008.

Almost instantaneously they annexed Crimea, there was no way that the Russians were going to give up their strategic naval base and have a US naval base replace it, the thought of that to the Russia admirals would have been incomprehensible.

Again, straight after the pro Russian president was ousted in a violent coup in Ukraine, fighting broke out in the East of the country, where it is mainly Russian speaking and not Ukrainian speaking, where it is mainly pro Russian and not pro European. This suited Putin as it meant Ukraine couldn’t join NATO, the Ukrainian army went into the east and the Russian army went into the west, a ceasefire was agreed and there was an agreement signed.

The Russian rebels held Ukrainian land in the east, and it had by an largely died down by 2021.

Russia approached NATO, and said to NATO that they want Crimea recognised as Russian and also guarantees that Ukraine will not become a US military base by being in NATO.

NATO refused. Why? Russia moved their troops to the Ukraine border, they were clearly saying in further negotiations if you do not give us guarantees, we will invade. NATO said no, why? Why would a defensive alliance, both allow and cause the invasion of Ukraine? I’m not talking about Ukraine joining the EU here, Russia were perfectly happy for them to join the EU this is about losing Sevastopol to the US and NATO and not having a US military base in Ukraine. Why do the US need military bases and missiles next to Russia?

Honestly I’m sick of NATO and the US they are jeopardising our security not enhancing it. Seriously what next? Asking Taiwan to join?
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Interesting 2nd to last paragraph. Maybe.

your paragraph about ‘it dying down’ is completely false, it’s been ramping up - saw a graph about incidents and there are rises and falls with the seasons, but the trend was always increasing.
 
blueinsa said:
Let’s all hope Pakistan and China don’t decide to take your sovereignty away one day and you demand everyone takes your side.

Expect you to speak up like the vast majority of the democratic world? Yes.
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The UK and the Europe are continuing to trade with Russia. The only real difference between us and India really are a few empty words from Johnson. That and we have banned his airline.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Thats an incisive piece of analysis mate. Thanks for educating us.

Which bits do you take issue with and why?
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The US has been at war 225 out of 243 years since 1776, since 1939 a total of 62 countries have gained independence from the United Kingdom.

Don't get me wrong, all the "big" countries are, practically, the same in the eyes of "small" countries, and if you are on top, you gonna have to pulverize your enemies to stay on top, I get that, even small countries, when they get their chance, will behave in the same manner.
But preaching this shit like we good them bad is childish and lame.
City fans are well aware of the propaganda machine used against City and it's only fucking football, imagine how's it been used for something more serious...
Anyway, the outrage we're feeling now is the outrage we should feel when the United States bombs or occupies a country, which is seemingly every other day.
The US and UK position on Ukraine might be taken more seriously if both countries hadn't spent the entire post-WWII period making a mockery of international law.
As US/NATO hegemony is waning globally, in the future, I expect most of it's power is going to be used against their own citizens.
I generally don't care about politics and I wish we could all be friends, except bindippers, fuck them.
And lastly, my friends, I just watched a video of a woman fucking a bed post. This is a magical time we live in.

Cheers.
 
JASR said:
Interesting 2nd to last paragraph. Maybe.

your paragraph about ‘it dying down’ is completely false, it’s been ramping up - saw a graph about incidents and there are rises and falls with the seasons, but the trend was always increasing.
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I’ll stand corrected on that, I’ve just not read much about it and made an assumption the lines were drawn and they weren’t moving.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
The UK and the Europe are continuing to trade with Russia. The only real difference between us and India really are a few empty words from Johnson. That and we have banned his airline.
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I think that’s disingenuous mate tbh.

Along with the US and EU the sanctions packages amount to far more than just empty words and if the Germans allow the EU to come in line with us re swift then it’s almost game over for Russia economically wise.

NATO as things stand can not come up against Russia for very obvious reasons.
 


So many videos on the ground from this Eastern European news channel. If you can't handle gore don't scroll down some of their vids.
 
bluesteel said:
Sure and Putin probably is a megalomaniac.

Russia have had a military base in Crimea for centuries, it’s where they have their Black Sea fleet, and is of massive strategic import should the need come for them to defend themselves.

Since the break up of the USSR Russia have leased the naval base from Ukraine.

When it looked like the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU and more pertinently NATO it would have meant Russia losing the naval base and having a US naval base there in it’s place.

There was also the likelihood of a US military base and missile system going into Ukraine.

These are the facts as I see them.

When Russia lost its puppet president in Ukraine in the 2014 coup, the writing was on the wall that they would join NATO as they were provisionally accepted in 2008.

Almost instantaneously they annexed Crimea, there was no way that the Russians were going to give up their strategic naval base and have a US naval base replace it, the thought of that to the Russia admirals would have been incomprehensible.

Again, straight after the pro Russian president was ousted in a violent coup in Ukraine, fighting broke out in the East of the country, where it is mainly Russian speaking and not Ukrainian speaking, where it is mainly pro Russian and not pro European. This suited Putin as it meant Ukraine couldn’t join NATO, the Ukrainian army went into the east and the Russian army went into the west, a ceasefire was agreed and there was an agreement signed.

The Russian rebels held Ukrainian land in the east, and it had by an largely died down by 2021.

Russia approached NATO, and said to NATO that they want Crimea recognised as Russian and also guarantees that Ukraine will not become a US military base by being in NATO.

NATO refused. Why? Russia moved their troops to the Ukraine border, they were clearly saying in further negotiations if you do not give us guarantees, we will invade. NATO said no, why? Why would a defensive alliance, both allow and cause the invasion of Ukraine? I’m not talking about Ukraine joining the EU here, Russia were perfectly happy for them to join the EU this is about losing Sevastopol to the US and NATO and not having a US military base in Ukraine. Why do the US need military bases and missiles next to Russia?

Honestly I’m sick of NATO and the US they are jeopardising our security not enhancing it. Seriously what next? Asking Taiwan to join?
Click to expand...

Damnable NATO not instructing Ukraine to give away some of it's territory to an aggressor who had already breached their own agreement to respect Ukraine borders.

Of course NATO refused to agree - they can't dictate borders and especially to countries who aren't members. That's patently absurd.
 
vmsuhail said:
That's our foreign policy. We have good ties with both Israel and Palestine, both Russia and USA, both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Russia has been a trustworthy friend of us for decades, and helped us during the 1971 war with Pakistan. Our greatest weapon 'Brahmos' (Brahmaputra-Moscow) was made with Russian partnership. They are our biggest defence supplier. Just a few months back, we purchased 5 units of S-400 for 5 billion USD .
Do you really expect India to speak against Russia ? Our neighbouring country Myanmar got took over by military and we did nothing. Our concern is only Pakistan and China. Anything happening beyond is not in our interests, be it democracy or dictatorship.
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Simply put India and any other democratic country that doesn't sanction Russia as per eventually the UK, US and EU on a trading blacklist, which has the same terms as that defined for Russia
 
blueinsa said:
Just been confirmed the the UK and US are ready now to ban Russia from swift but it’s the EU and largely Germany saying no not yet.
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Disappointing from Germany if that's the case. At the end of the day, whatever sanctions are imposed are going to result in an economic hit for everyone - not just Germany - but the need to sanction Russia should outweigh that.
 
I haven’t checked the veracity of the list but this potentially puts the importance of Ukraine in an entirely different light


Mind blowing stats, worth a read.

We are all watching the news like hawks... And maybe like the rest of us you are wondering why are Russia invading Ukraine.

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter❓ “
This is why Ukraine matters.

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.

Minerals:
Ukraine ranks:
⚗1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
⚙2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
⛽3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an important agricultural country: ‍

1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

1st in Europe in ammonia production;
⛽Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
☢3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
☄9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
⛓10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters❗
That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world❗.
 
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