Russian invasion of Ukraine

Uptop said:
These leaders in charge have become far too complacent, this has been building for nigh on 10 years and they had zero contingency plan, if anything they have just become further dependant on russian gas during that time, insanity.
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Article in the FT made it clear that the German leadership was asleep at the wheel over gas supplies the last 10 years.

But then the Germans have always had a bit of an up and down relationship with gas.
 
bluesteel said:
Damnable NATO for not backing off in regards to giving Ukraine membership.

NATO had 2 options.
Option 1, don’t back off, lose Ukraine to a bloody war.
Option 2, back off, if Russia back off too, happy days, if they don’t, lose Ukraine to a bloody war.

Option 1 is patently absurd.
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And in either option, Putin is the real prick, and in the wrong in both.
 
Uptop said:
Germany and europe in general have opened themselves to an insane national security risk by becoming dependant on one rogue nation for most of their energy needs. It is madness to have allowed it to happen, a complete dearth of competent leadership throughout the west.

These leaders in charge have become far too complacent, this has been building for nigh on 10 years and they had zero contingency plan, if anything they have just become further dependant on russian gas during that time, insanity.

It maybe highlights the one major flaw with a democratic government in comparison to authoritarians, in that they can rarely make long term plans as they continuously need short term support to get elected, quick and easy solutions work best but often neglect the long term and leads to ignoring difficult problems until later.

I wonder if this will also highlight the worlds dependence on China for a lot of manufacturing should they start to act up.
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I think you are overlooking the significant progress we have made in terms of safe spaces, inclusive language and gender neutral toilets.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Article in the FT made it clear that the German leadership was asleep at the wheel over gas supplies the last 10 years.

But then the Germans have always had a bit of an up and down relationship with gas.
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Bloody hell!

I'm off to see Henning Wehn, the German ambassador for comedy, at the Lowry tonight.

I'll be sure to pass on your regards, Col ;)
 
PPT said:
The Germans have acted disgracefully - that is without question. However, the Russians will never switch off the gas. They simply cannot afford to do so. It is a major source of income for them which without they are in real trouble.
Just another example of the Germans looking after the Germans and sod everybody else. What's new?
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it is easy to say that but it is not you that is going without heating in the winter. Or being left without the means to cook food.
They will need to find an alternative energy source and that will take a while.
 
redders said:
it is easy to say that but it is not you that is going without heating in the winter. Or being left without the means to cook food.
They will need to find an alternative energy source and that will take a while.
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Don't know if true but on 5live it was said that Germany have enough fuel reserves to last til next winter.
 
The problem Germany have is that they decommissioned their Nuclear power programme.Its funny back in the 80s when the Tories where dismantling out coal industry one of the phrases that flew around a lot was Energy Independence, Germany are finding that out now to their cost that if you get it wrong your hands can be significantly tied, irrespective of what you might want to do.
 
bluesteel said:
Going around in circles here, they invaded Iraq.
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Not me, I'm not going round in circles. Is Putin defending Iraq here, aye.

Since you are a man of metaphor.

You ask your girlfriend to move in, yous are in love. Your neighbour tells you he is worried you'll get married have kids, and they might kick the ball over into his garden. Politely asks you to have your girlfriend move out or he'll burn down your house.

You ignore him, he sets your house on fire.

Could you have avoided it? Of course you could have. Should you have?


To fuck with this bullshit 'poke a bear with a stick and he'll pounce' or 'push a spring too far and it'll recoil' crap. He's not a bear, he's no spring. He's a grown man and the leader of a country, and is responsible and accountable by those standards, not shitty excusist cliches.
 
redders said:
it is easy to say that but it is not you that is going without heating in the winter. Or being left without the means to cook food.
They will need to find an alternative energy source and that will take a while.
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Maybe German gov is not as stupid as some suggest and have had a thought or two about national energy security before stopping Nord Stream 2.
We have reserves and time to fill them up again.
Don't worry about Germany. It's about Ukraine and freedom in general.
 
Ajm1985 said:
Russia and China are permanent, veto power holding, members of the Security Council - it makes it difficult for them to pass any resolution against Russia. I mention China as they haven't, from my understanding, chastised Russia yet.
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I understand that to be the case, but it still begs the question of what is the point of them if they are toothless. If you are the aggressor i.e. Russia why should your power of veto count ?
I'm sure removing some trade barriers to the west may change China's mind.
 
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