Russian invasion of Ukraine

Scottyboi said:
I don't think that is a great excuse to abstain in my opinion.
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You are probably right but the whole point of being independent is that you can make your own decisions and live your own lives. The UAE have criticised the Russians but chosen to abstain. The Russians were always going to use their veto. The overwhelming majority of countries were prepared to sign up and that was there choice to.
 
Akai said:
Nations do what suits their own national security interest. Abstaining doesn't mean that the UAE or India support the Russian invasion. The delegation speech afterwards clarifies this.

The resolution was always deemed to fail anyway with Russia's veto vote!
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I am aware that the vote would never carry, but an abstention is normal viewed as implied support as demonstrated by Russian ally China.
How anyone could decide not to criticise this act of war is beyond me.
The UAE should hang it's head in shame.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
I mean, of-bloody-course NATO decides who joins NATO. But NATO has an open-door policy to joining and a country only has to approach NATO to open negotiations.

The 2004 and 2010 (in fact, all!) Ukraine elections were fraught with election fraud with meddling from Russia.
After the 2010 elections, pro-Russian president Yanukovych, threw all opposition leaders in gaol.
In 2013 Ukraine was set to join the EU with an overwhelming majority in favour of this across the country. Russia again meddled and Yanukovych refused to sign the papers and Ukraine didn’t join.
Ukraine was invaded in 2014 - to be fair in Crimea it was mostly welcomed, but in Donbas it wasn’t despite there being a large pro-Russian and Russian ethnic population.
Yanukovych put 46% of the Ukraine budget towards the large pro-Russian and Russian ethnic Donbas region when it only has 11% of the Ukraine population.
In 2014 Russia were kicked out of the G8 for numerous reasons including being untrustworthy, unfriendly if not dangerous, and basically dickheads.
Russia does not recognise Ukraine’s sovereignty.
Russia think Ukraine is a region of Russia.
Putin is big on making Russian Orthodox Christianity as part of every day Russian life - in Ukraine they have a different denomination of Orthodoxy that Putin does not recognise and wants to get rid of.
Ukraine approached NATO about joining as they were sick of Russia and fearful of their next moves.

Also, importantly…


This is why Ukraine matters.

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.

Minerals:
Ukraine ranks:
⚗1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
⚙2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
⛽3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an important agricultural country: ‍

1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

1st in Europe in ammonia production;
⛽Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
☢3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
☄9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
⛓10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters

Russia has a small, unvaried and struggling economy… look at that list and think why Russia might want to invade Ukraine.

Also Russian is the world’s biggest spreader of misinformation. Don’t fall for it!
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Great post, although I can imagine Borat singing those stats kazak anthem-style!
 
blueish swede said:
This is one of the most intresting things to come out of the invasion, if the numbers are even close to being true.

Russia is still very much in the tank age of warfare. If the US Javelin and the Rb57/NLAW are effective against the heavy T90s etc then it will be concering for the Russian army, to say the least.

These are a 2 man bit of kit that can be transported by car or eve horse, if it goes over to a guerrilla war and the Ukranians can get a decent supply it could be a very costly war for Russia.
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It looks to be pretty deadly. Perhaps the tank is finally a historic weapon of war as predicted since the arab-Isreal conflict in 1973
 
Bazzmand Show said:
No, I'm saying sending troops in from other parts of the world and getting involved in this conflict makes the situation significantly worse.
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That's the point of sending troops in, to make it significantly worse for the aggressor who in this case is Russia who have INVADED a sovereign country and is killing their citizens.

Sending troops in could make the situation significantly better for the Ukranians, most kind minded people couldn't give a toss about it making it worse for the Russians, as for doing nothing we all know what happens when you appease someone like Putin.

Hell he's even threatening parts of Scandinavia.
 
west didsblue said:
Most conflicts in the world are complicated with valid points of view from both sides.
This isn’t one of them. It’s the most straightforward act of unprovoked naked aggression since Germany invaded Poland, and we’ve still got the usual wankers on here trying to see it from both sides. Wish they’d just fuck off.
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That is how radicalisation works when you polarise and exclude views. No one is as far as I can see supporting Russia, but you should feel secure enough in your own views that you can just shrug and walk past the ones you don't like. Obviously if someone is proposing something extreme it needs challenged, but unless I've missed some posts I've not seen any of that.
 
Metal Biker said:
There was a thread on this. Listen to what the UAE delegate had to say. They opposed the violence, called for de-escalation and called for all member states rights to sovereignty and independence to be respected. It looks more like the abstention was more a "what's the point in voting when Russia is just going to veto it anyway".
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That isn’t their reason for abstaining. They’ve got significant trade deals in place with Russia including military supply. It was a “how do we try and not piss them off too much”
 
Len Rum said:
When are we going to drop visa requirements and allow asylum for Ukranian refugees?
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Should be immediately, a European country is under attack and once again we're making it fucking impossible for those fleeing to seek asylum.
 
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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
That is how radicalisation works when you polarise and exclude views. No one is as far as I can see supporting Russia, but you should feel secure enough in your own views that you can just shrug and walk past the ones you don't like. Obviously if someone is proposing something extreme it needs challenged, but unless I've missed some posts I've not seen any of that.
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Hiding behind Voltairian proclamations to defend nonsense.
Your usual hit and run with ridiculous statements and then claim free speech is your vanguard. Your m.o.
 
When was the Ukraine formed? I couldn't quite find out. All news media seems to begin their history in 1991. I'm aware they had a revolution is the 1600s against Poland incursion which ended up with them aligning more, or being incorporated into Russia, and then something in the 1900s.. But when did Ukraine become an actual country anyone?
 
west didsblue said:
Most conflicts in the world are complicated with valid points of view from both sides.
This isn’t one of them. It’s the most straightforward act of unprovoked naked aggression since Germany invaded Poland, and we’ve still got the usual wankers on here trying to see it from both sides. Wish they’d just fuck off.
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Wish I could like this more than once.
 
meltonblue said:
That isn’t their reason for abstaining. They’ve got significant trade deals in place with Russia including military supply. It was a “how do we try and not piss them off too much”
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You are totally wrong on this. The UAE has a lot of investments in Ukraine through Mubadala, whom CEO is Khaldoon.

The UAE decided to abstain as its more focused on the resolution that will be presented next week that will propose sanctioning the Houthis following their attacks on Abu Dhabi. The UAE needs Russia's vote to pass this resolution.
 
west didsblue said:
Most conflicts in the world are complicated with valid points of view from both sides.
This isn’t one of them. It’s the most straightforward act of unprovoked naked aggression since Germany invaded Poland, and we’ve still got the usual wankers on here trying to see it from both sides. Wish they’d just fuck off.
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They should just be fucked off from here.

Sometime, an opinion doesn't deserve to be heard, and this is one of those occasions.
 
Akai said:
You are totally wrong on this. The UAE has a lot of investments in Ukraine through Mubadala, whom CEO is Khaldoon.

The UAE decided to abstain as its more focused on the resolution that will be presented next week that will propose sanctioning the Houthis following their attacks on Abu Dhabi. The UAE needs Russia's vote to pass this resolution.
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Makes more sense but at the same time could have now changed how others vote on it?
 
mexico1970 said:
That's the point of sending troops in, to make it significantly worse for the aggressor who in this case is Russia who have INVADED a sovereign country and is killing their citizens.

Sending troops in could make the situation significantly better for the Ukranians, most kind minded people couldn't give a toss about it making it worse for the Russians, as for doing nothing we all know what happens when you appease someone like Putin.

Hell he's even threatening parts of Scandinavia.
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We have to be very careful with things like this, Putin has nuclear weapons and other weapons that can obliterate anything so the last thing we want is our troops going in there.

The Russian advance so far has been really weak, they're doing the bare minimum really to take control of the country. They haven't even tactically taken control of the airspace over Kiev even though they could do it very quickly if they tried.

I think they expected to walk in and Ukraine would surrender quite quickly but actually they're going to face a short campaign followed by months of resistance warfare on the streets. The Russians don't have any experience of these type of campaigns and I'm not sure the motivation is there at home for that. The sanctions will see to that anyway.

I'm reckoning this will go on for a while and then Putin will suddenly declare that Russia has 'achieved' its goals and they'll withdraw. Their key goal really is to eliminate the government in Ukraine so that they can leave and go back to pressuring for a more Putin aligned government as in Belarus.
 
Poland refuse to play Russia in the World Cup play-offs.

FIFA should get off their arses and ban Russia from all of their competitions immediately. Other sports should do the same, if the ROC are allowed to compete at the Winter Paralympics I shall be disgusted.
 
Big mals fedora said:
What a leader Zelenslky is. Nothing but admiration for this man, his cabinet & his people (& the whole of Poland too). I’ve said for years, what we are short of in this country is a leader who identifies with the common , working class people, not some lemon from an upperclass, privately educated background. Anyway, drifting a bit off topic I suppose, but I just wish we had someone like him to lead us. All hail Zelenslky!!
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The fundamental problem is that pretty much all career politicians are cunts. It’s no mistake that he’s had another life outside politics.
 
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