Russian invasion of Ukraine

Chippy_boy said:
There can be no tit for tat mate. What do you suggest the west do as tit for tat, if Russia were to nuke Ukraine? Nuke a different bit of Ukraine?

No, we'd have to nuke Russia. And that is not tit for tat, it's a huge escalation which would risk the lives of countless millions in the west. It would be an absolute disaster.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear but you cannot copy madman tactics when dealing with a madman.

Sadly, I think the best outcome at this point is that Ukraine falls quickly and with the minimum of further casualties, and from there we can continue to apply sanctions, to use all diplomatic channels and to try to negotiate some kind of compromise deal which may allow some of Ukraine some degree of independence.
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Could there not be a scenario where the west gets involved but strictly to defend Ukraine, no retaliation or entering Russia, purely to maintain Ukraine sovereignty?

I don't think that scenario would lead to nukes.

We just send the message that we will not enter Russia but we will defend Ukraine.

Lines will be drawn at some point, western leaders will have a line where they probably can't let it go any further.

If Russia kills the Ukrainian President lets say, are the west really going to ignore that?
 
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Whilst rightly condemning and taking action let's also help the people of Afghanistan and deal diplomatically with the Taliban to avert a catastrophe there too. Let's combat poverty on our own streets. It's all not political but common sense and we all benefit. There will never be a perfect world but let's try. Unfortunately I won't hold my breath.
 
Chippy_boy said:
There can be no tit for tat mate. What do you suggest the west do as tit for tat, if Russia were to nuke Ukraine? Nuke a different bit of Ukraine?

No, we'd have to nuke Russia. And that is not tit for tat, it's a huge escalation which would risk the lives of countless millions in the west. It would be an absolute disaster.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear but you cannot copy madman tactics when dealing with a madman.

Sadly, I think the best outcome at this point is that Ukraine falls quickly and with the minimum of further casualties, and from there we can continue to apply sanctions, to use all diplomatic channels and to try to negotiate some kind of compromise deal which may allow some of Ukraine some degree of independence.
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Wow, never knew Neville Chamberlain was still alive.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Meet:

Definition:
  1. arrange or happen to come into the presence or company of (someone).
    "a week later I met him in the street"

    Similar:
    encounter

    meet up with

    come face to face with

    make contact with

    run into/across

    come across/upon

    chance on

    happen on

    light on

    stumble across/on

    bump into



    2. touch or join.
    "icebergs are created when glaciers meet the sea"

    ..................................

    So it was a phone call then.
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I don’t seriously need to post the definition of a meeting to counter you for some odd reason using the definition of the verb “meet”, do I?!

If your point originally was that it wouldn’t be a physical meeting then fair enough, I didn’t get the impression at the time you meant that though, I thought you were arguing they would step back from discussions by now completely.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Could there not be a scenario where the west gets involved but strictly to defend Ukraine, no retaliation or entering Russia, purely to maintain Ukraine sovereignty?

I don't think that scenario would lead to nukes.

We just send the message that we will not enter Russia but we will defend Ukraine.

Lines will be drawn at some point, western leaders will have a line where they probably can't let it go any further.

If Russia kills the Ukrainian President lets say, are the west really going to ignore that?
Click to expand...

We still wouldn’t get involved directly if that happened. I’m not entirely sure that Putin would want Zelenskyy killed now anyway, he might still be his best way out of it.
 
Chippy_boy said:
There can be no tit for tat mate. What do you suggest the west do as tit for tat, if Russia were to nuke Ukraine? Nuke a different bit of Ukraine?

No, we'd have to nuke Russia. And that is not tit for tat, it's a huge escalation which would risk the lives of countless millions in the west. It would be an absolute disaster.

I know that's not what anyone wants to hear but you cannot copy madman tactics when dealing with a madman.

Sadly, I think the best outcome at this point is that Ukraine falls quickly and with the minimum of further casualties, and from there we can continue to apply sanctions, to use all diplomatic channels and to try to negotiate some kind of compromise deal which may allow some of Ukraine some degree of independence.
Click to expand...
Thats what it was back in 83 when I was in the military. I doubt it has changed. AND yes it probably would escalate quickly.
 
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