Russian invasion of Ukraine

SWP's back said:
In “reality” I don’t surround myself with people that speak from a position of ignorance so I rarely end up feeling quite so exasperated as I do on here.

That we are a week into the invasion and people are still posting Putin lies about this being anything to do with “preventing a NATO country from bordering Russia” is beyond a joke.

And yes, we all have opinions, I base mine solely on listening to the experts that have spent their careers studying Russia and Putin. I never stop trying to learn and I’m a voracious reader on this subject. Then we get some random fucker in here who watched a Facebook video from infowars and they come on here and blame nato and I’d personally never tire of slapping their idiot faces.
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You are persistently extremely arrogant and condescending towards others who for all we know may be as well read up on the subjects as you, or maybe more so. Of course there are plenty of dickhead comments too, but not all of them are. Perhaps an atom of humility and god forbid, civility, would not go amiss.

Just one example: You jump on anyone who dares suggest the war has anything to do with NATO. But you are wrong to do so. Yes, it is to do with Putin's vision and yearning for a return to a Soviet Union and his chip on his shoulder about the ever dwindling power and influence of Russia. We all get that.

But that does not mean it has NOTHING to do with Ukraine and NATO, which is also a genuine factor. He sees Ukraine in particular joining NATO as yet further erosion, but crucially also likely resulting in the loss of Crimea back to the west. It became a red line for him. That you don't get that, is on you.
 
SWP's back said:
In “reality” I don’t surround myself with people that speak from a position of ignorance so I rarely end up feeling quite so exasperated as I do on here.

That we are a week into the invasion and people are still posting Putin lies about this being anything to do with “preventing a NATO country from bordering Russia” is beyond a joke.

And yes, we all have opinions, I base mine solely on listening to the experts that have spent their careers studying Russia and Putin. I never stop trying to learn and I’m a voracious reader on this subject. Then we get some random fucker in here who watched a Facebook video from infowars and they come on here and blame nato and I’d personally never tire of slapping their idiot faces.
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I already had, and it clearly says:

I think there’s been a logical, methodical plan that goes back a very long way, at least to 2007 when he put the world, and certainly Europe, on notice that Moscow would not accept the further expansion of NATO. And then within a year in 2008 NATO gave an open door to Georgia and Ukraine. It absolutely goes back to that juncture.

Back then I was a national intelligence officer, and the National Intelligence Council was analyzing what Russia was likely to do in response to the NATO Open Door declaration. One of our assessments was that there was a real, genuine risk of some kind of preemptive Russian military action, not just confined to the annexation of Crimea, but some much larger action taken against Ukraine along with Georgia. And of course, four months after NATO’s Bucharest Summit, there was the invasion of Georgia. There wasn’t an invasion of Ukraine then because the Ukrainian government pulled back from seeking NATO membership.”

And you clearly say:

SWP's back said:
The illegal invasion of Ukraine has NOTHING to do with NATO.

Because you're not too bright are you flower.
 
metalblue said:
History will prove you right or wrong on that point but one comment I have is; this is the same rationale the US adopted after Dunkirk and choose to not get involved. Eventually they were forced to. And this is nothing if not a history lesson for us from Putin.

I’m not saying we should go in gun-ho but eventually we will get dragged into this. We are probably doing the best we can, sanctions and providing as much support as we can to Ukraine. We can always do a bit more but honestly I don’t think Putin saw this response coming from the west. So firstly Ukraine has put up a hell of a fight and surprised the Russians but they can’t keep this up on their own forever, secondly we’re inflicting damage on Russian economy but that will take time to be really felt, we just need the third part which is giving Putin enough that he can withdraw and sell it as a victory back home - this obviously relies on Putin actually wanting that and that is debatable, and if he doesn’t want it we have to face facts and we might as well get this over and done with now and go in to Ukraine and slap his shit all ways to Sunday and see what the midget **** wants to try and do next.
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No way can we or should we go into Ukraine or even impose a no fly zone.
 
RandomJ said:
Increasing number of I'm alright Jack posts. Ukraine should just surrender, they should just hand over the eastern part of the country, they should just ignore the deaths of their murdered civilians so people bricking it about nuclear war can stop pissing their pants.

All very easy to say from the safety of your computer thousands of miles away. Something tells me they wouldn't be posting that bollocks if their country was next on the list.
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They’ll stop pissing their pants shortly.

Thursday: rest of world keep out of Ukraine or else - world ignores and sends weapons and invokes sanctions.
Sunday: our nuclear forces are on high alert - world ignores and sends more shit
Monday: our nuclear forces are on combat readiness - world ignores and keeps sending shit
Today?: He’s literally run out of anywhere to go. What next? I’ve taken the covers off my missiles and I really mean it
And tomorrow? I’ve repainted the missiles that’s how much I mean it this time.

He’s going to look like a drunk who threatens everyone and some folk might take notice at the start but everyone eventually just laughs at him.
 
Chippy_boy said:
You are persistently extremely arrogant and condescending towards others who for all we know may be as well read up on the subjects as you, or maybe more so. Of course there are plenty of dickhead comments too, but not all of them are. Perhaps an atom of humility and god forbid, civility, would not go amiss.

Just one example: You jump on anyone who dares suggest the war has anything to do with NATO. But you are wrong to do so. Yes, it is to do with Putin's vision and yearning for a return to a Soviet Union and his chip on his shoulder about the ever dwindling power and influence of Russia. We all get that.

But that does not mean it has NOTHING to do with Ukraine and NATO, which is also a genuine factor. He sees Ukraine in particular joining NATO as yet further erosion, but crucially also likely resulting in the loss of Crimea back to the west. It became a red line for him. That you don't get that, is on you.
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The experts disagree with you. I’ll stick with them:

62E2CFB9-EDD9-4032-A638-19BBFA618FC9.jpeg
Although I’m sure you know more than Russiaologist for the NSA Tom Nichols and former US Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul…. Same goes for you @bluesteel

Don’t like my posting style then block me, I’m not changing for you or anyone but thanks for the chat.
 
SWP's back said:
In “reality” I don’t surround myself with people that speak from a position of ignorance so I rarely end up feeling quite so exasperated as I do on here.

That we are a week into the invasion and people are still posting Putin lies about this being anything to do with “preventing a NATO country from bordering Russia” is beyond a joke.

And yes, we all have opinions, I base mine solely on listening to the experts that have spent their careers studying Russia and Putin. I never stop trying to learn and I’m a voracious reader on this subject. Then we get some random fucker in here who watched a Facebook video from infowars and they come on here and blame nato and I’d personally never tire of slapping their idiot faces.
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Take two Aspirin and give me a call in the morning Sam, it'll pass. :-)

As to misinformation, you can see how easy it is for people to get duped. You say that you are a voracious reader on the subject but most aren't. Equally, people steadfastly refusing to believe the blindingly obvious is a tad frustrating.

I'll be honest, given the subject matter I think this entire thread has been remarkably civilised.
 
MCFC1993 said:
But what is a win for Putin that Ukraine will accept?

They won't give up any of their sovereign territory, they want Crimea back as well.

Then Russia only has NATO and the EU to bargain with and Ukraine would be mad not to want to join those after all of this.
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To be fair Crimea was part of Russia till 1958 when Nikita Khrushchev made it part of the Ukraine due to their outstanding contribution to Russia in the Great Patriotic War. Khrushchev was head of the Ukrainian SSR from 1938 BTW though he was born just over the border in Russia near Kursk.
 
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SWP's back said:
You’ve twice quoted Fiona Hill. A woman literally, in the same interview, stating that Putin wants to remake the Russian Empire. I’m cringing for you pal. You’ve embarrassed yourself here.
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I think there’s been a logical, methodical plan that goes back a very long way, at least to 2007 when he put the world, and certainly Europe, on notice that Moscow would not accept the further expansion of NATO. And then within a year in 2008 NATO gave an open door to Georgia and Ukraine. It absolutely goes back to that juncture.

Back then I was a national intelligence officer, and the National Intelligence Council was analyzing what Russia was likely to do in response to the NATO Open Door declaration. One of our assessments was that there was a real, genuine risk of some kind of preemptive Russian military action, not just confined to the annexation of Crimea, but some much larger action taken against Ukraine along with Georgia. And of course, four months after NATO’s Bucharest Summit, there was the invasion of Georgia. There wasn’t an invasion of Ukraine then because the Ukrainian government pulled back from seeking NATO membership.”

And you clearly say:

SWP's back said:
The illegal invasion of Ukraine has NOTHING to do with NATO.

Not me embarrassing myself. That’s just you reading the bits you want to read and acting like a prick, there is a lot more to this that just NATO/Georgia/Ukraine, but you've constantly spouted shit like above (and below) on this thread ignoring key aspects of what is going on.

See this, same article

"Putin tried to warn Trump about this, but I don’t think Trump figured out what he was saying. In one of the last meetings between Putin and Trump when I was there, Putin was making the point that: “Well you know, Donald, we have these hypersonic missiles.” And Trump was saying, “Well, we will get them too.” Putin was saying, “Well, yes, you will get them eventually, but we’ve got them first.” There was a menace in this exchange. Putin was putting us on notice that if push came to shove in some confrontational environment that the nuclear option would be on the table."

Bazzmand Show said:
Yes but their nuclear capabilities are more advanced than NATO, it's where most of their r and d has gone.
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Your response:

"That’s also bollocks.

Fuck me the absolute state of this thread."
 
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