Russian invasion of Ukraine

tolmie's hairdoo said:
There perhaps may come a stage when Putin doesn't even see the distinction between Ukraine physically fighting alone, and Nato countries supplying the weapons and enforcing sanctions?

A rat is never more dangerous than when it feels cornered?

It wasn't the case in Afghanistan when Russia were there and the CIA were shipping stuff in, but this is on a whole different level.
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Fuck him.
 
RT in propaganda overdrive.

Just had some old russian ex-military guy on saying the Freedom Square blast yesterday, looks likely from 152mm artillery shell, so likely came from the Ukrainians (as the Russians have no units in the area)

Unbelievable! You can literally see the missile just before it lands
 
domalino said:
People keep talking about a way out for Putin, but imagine if he keeps going for a minute.

Imagine an occupation like Afghanistan.

Instead of 40 year old soviet weapons the enemy is armed with the best modern technology in the world.

Then imagine there’s a real army of 400,000 to defeat first not an untrained rabble.

Then imagine instead of 1% of the population being against you, it’s more like 80%.

Then imagine that As long as it goes on, your economy is in the worst depression in history and inflation is reaching Zimbabwe levels.

Then imagine how low morale is back home now that you’re kicked out of all international sport, films aren’t released, there’s no gigs because bands don’t tour - not that you could afford it anyway.

People can’t buy a new phone or computer or to unless it’s Chinese. They can’t get parts for your cars. They can’t get flights anywhere.

Tens of thousands of mothers just lose contact with their sons and never hear from them again, never get to bury them or properly mourn.

Every political ally you have just lost 80% of their money and every day a coup is more likely.

This is Vietnam and the Great Depression and North Korea pariah status all in one.

Imagine knowing that you’ll go down as the worst president in the country’s history.

The off ramp is avoiding that. Come up with whatever lie and excuse you need to bring your “Special Military Exercise” to an end.
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You’re now trying to convince a bunch of middle aged blokes in here whose arses have gone. Good luck.
 
Wonder what impact covid will have on the whole situation, will have civilians already in weak health and hungry getting sick with no hospital to go to.

The armies on both sides will have men get really ill or die. Putin is sending them in with not enough fuel or food so I doubt he went to the trouble of making sure they were all triple vaccinated too.
 
SWP's back said:
You’re now trying to convince a bunch of middle aged blokes in here whose arses have gone. Good luck.
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Tbf, think we can all see the logic to domalino's post. Makes perfect sense, but I guess the reason people aren't so sure is that it relies on Putin being able to go 'I lost and I have to back down'. That's the bit people are struggling to think will happen. He doesn't seem compos mentis, does he? Hopefully that's just bullshit though and there is some semblance of sense there.
 
artfuldodger said:
My neighbours are Latvian and we spent 40 minutes yesterday having a similar conversation. They believe we in the west are being fed propaganda, there’s a different side to the story, Putin is acting in the interest of Ukraine. It does make you wonder how they can come to that conclusion?
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It does because they wouldn't feel that way if Russia were stomping through Latvia but that wouldn't happen because........
 
SWP's back said:
Boris just said the U.K. has sanctioned 275 individuals in the last week. Are you sure that tweet is correct?
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There’s only 11 named individuals that have been added so far. I’m assuming Boris was counting individuals linked to entities with that number?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course, but personally I just think you're wrong on this one Domalino. The things you describe are all true, but they are all problems for another day. The right here and right now will be what's on Putin's mind and I just cannot imagine how he decides a complete u-turn is in his best interests. Maybe, just maybe, the Oligarchs can persuade him, but I just cannot see it happening. I'd give it a 1% chance. Terrible odds.
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The problems are here and now. The Kremlin just announced that “The countries economic reality has considerably changed” and that Sberbank has run out of money after a run on the bank.

The stock exchange is STILL closed today, the rouble is at the lowest it’s ever been.

These economic sanctions are not short term issues, they are hitting right now.
 
twosips said:
Tbf, think we can all see the logic to domalino's post. Makes perfect sense, but I guess the reason people aren't so sure is that it relies on Putin being able to go 'I lost and I have to back down'. That's the bit people are struggling to think will happen. He doesn't seem compos mentis, does he? Hopefully that's just bullshit though and there is some semblance of sense there.
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This war could force Putin down to his last £100bn and reduce his satisfaction rate in Russia to 50%. He doesn’t look like he gives a fcuk.
 
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