Russian invasion of Ukraine

mcfcinprague said:
On a personal note, me and Mrs Prague recently rented out our house near Prague and the people wanted us to empty the house so they could use all their own stuff, so all our stuff went to storage. Some Ukrainian refugees have been given accomodation in the town so we have donated all our stuff to them - furniture, TV, pots and pans, bedding etc.
We thought it was the right thing to do as we wouldn't be using it for some time.
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Brilliant, mate. This is the kind of stuff we should all be doing but I’m afraid us over here are left to donate funds, clothes, food, etc, for export because our borders are basically shut unless Ukrainians have ties to the country.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Nothing more than symbolism?

At the Berlin Wall alone, at least 140 people were killed or died in other ways directly connected to the GDR border regime between 1961 and 1989, including 100 people who were shot, accidentally killed, or killed themselves when they were caught trying to make it over the Wall

Victims of the Wall - Berlin.de

www.berlin.de www.berlin.de
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That is a very sad statistic, but the Berlin Wall was built 15 years after the partition of Berlin. It was political symbolism that two different political and economic entities existed is the world
 
Rascal said:
That is a very sad statistic, but the Berlin Wall was built 15 years after the partition of Berlin. It was political symbolism that two different political and economic entities existed is the world
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I would say that it's fine for two different political/economic entities to exist, as long as one doesn't start lobbing bombs and razing part of another entity to the ground.

There are very few black or whites in the world, most things exist in a murky grey area.

The case of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of those few areas that is definitely black and white.
 
west didsblue said:
Turkey asked to join. Nobody forced them.
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NATO could have said NO.

Which is the whole point, NATO have been too eager to increase their membership and fuck everyone else. Was the dangers of this expansionism ever considered, doesn't look like it as it was too eager to increase its sphere of influence. By definition NATO is a defensive alliance, so why the expansionism?
 
LGWIO said:
Maybe should be in the World Cup 2022 thread. It may be football and not war but the irony in the Russian Football Federations response to being banned by UEFA/FIFA almost made me spit my coffee out (not from a balcony or out of the car window though)

"The Russian Football Union was also not given the right to present its position, which violated the fundamental right to defence,"
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Yes, they mentioned "fair play" in their statement. YCNMIU.
 
Rascal said:
NATO could have said NO.

Which is the whole point, NATO have been too eager to increase their membership and fuck everyone else. Was the dangers of this expansionism ever considered, doesn't look like it as it was too eager to increase its sphere of influence. By definition NATO is a defensive alliance, so why the expansionism?
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Care to expand on what you mean by "increase its sphere of influence"
 
Rascal said:
NATO could have said NO.

Which is the whole point, NATO have been too eager to increase their membership and fuck everyone else. Was the dangers of this expansionism ever considered, doesn't look like it as it was too eager to increase its sphere of influence. By definition NATO is a defensive alliance, so why the expansionism?
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Funnily enough more and more members that have expressed a wish to join NATO have the same thing in common; they fear RUSSIAN expansionism.

If someone came to you begging you to protect them and you were in a position to do so, would you say no to them? Ukraine is asking to join NATO because it feared invasion from Russia. Are you suggesting that Ukraine, Sweden and Finland are 'paranoid' that Russia will invade them?
 
Rascal said:
NATO expansionism.

How close is Turkey to the North Atlantic?
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I've always thought you were just a slightly naive, idealistic individual but you're outing yourself here you really are.

You hate capitalism and you're going along the line of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

You don't really give a fuck that innocent lives are being lost and world peace is under threat due solely to the actions of a murderous dictator purely because it gives you the opportunity to espouse your political view that the Western world is evil.

Just despicable.
 
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west didsblue said:
I responded to a copied and pasted crock of shit. It was all the response necessary for a post that took you a few seconds to put there.
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Did you actually read it?

Seriously some people seem ever so touchy about any commentary which doesn't 100% align with their own.

I have pretty much never agreed with Rascal on anything, but at least I am prepared to have an open mind and consider different perspectives.

Rather depressingly, the thread seems to have degenerated into a forum for shouting abuse at anyone with a different view. I hoped we could be better than that.
 
RobMCFC said:
I would say that it's fine for two different political/economic entities to exist, as long as one doesn't start lobbing bombs and razing part of another entity to the ground.

There are very few black or whites in the world, most things exist in a murky grey area.

The case of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of those few areas that is definitely black and white.
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Is anyone saying otherwise?

Some people on here genuinely seem to have difficulty in differenting between seeking to understand something with seeking to justify it.
 
Rascal said:
It is amazing that counter narratives are so easily dismissed.

Have you ever wondered why?
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Some people seem to think it's only the Russians and Chinese that do propaganda, hacking, and attempt to interfere in the media and politics of other nations. We are all at it, and frankly I'd be alarmed if our own defense policy didn't include it. Do we really think that as a nation we'd spend billions on trident etc, but draw the line at manipulation of our domestic news or trying to subvert the Russian /Chinese state?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Did you actually read it?

Seriously some people seem ever so touchy about any commentary which doesn't 100% align with their own.

I have pretty much never agreed with Rascal on anything, but at least I am prepared to have an open mind and consider different perspectives.

Rather depressingly, the thread seems to have degenerated into a forum for shouting abuse at anyone with a different view. I hoped we could be better than that.
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Yes I read it. I stand by my assessment of it.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Did you actually read it?

Seriously some people seem ever so touchy about any commentary which doesn't 100% align with their own.

I have pretty much never agreed with Rascal on anything, but at least I am prepared to have an open mind and consider different perspectives.

Rather depressingly, the thread seems to have degenerated into a forum for shouting abuse at anyone with a different view. I hoped we could be better than that.
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I hoped people could be better than giving any justification for Putin's actions.
 
Cheesy said:
I've always thought you were.just a slightly naive, idealistic individual but you're outing yourself here you really are.

You hate capitalism and you're going along the line of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

You.don't really give a fuck that innocent lives are being lost and world peace is under threat due solely to the actions of a murderous dictator purely because it gives you the opportunity to espouse your political view that the Western world is evil.

Just despicable.
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Yeah, I am really disappointed too.

I'm getting vibes of "I hate western capitalism so much that I support this invasion if it means a regime change for Europe that eventually distances itself from US influence". I fully expect comparisons to other world conflicts being used next to criticise the concept of NATO.

Odd isn't it that if Russia joined NATO, the perceived threat to Russia by NATO disappears overnight. That suggests the issue isn't with NATO.
 
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