Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Octavian]

, not just Putin bad, Ukraine good.

No, I think this angle pretty much completely covers it.

 

[BringBackSwales]

I have expressed my thoughts that Putin is a ****, he is, but this is not a black and white situation. There are neo-Nazi's in the Donbass, the Azov battalion of the Ukranian army are notorious for being neo-Nazi. Are NATO now supporting Neo Nazis?

It just surprises me that people are so quick to toe the NATO/Western line. Sanctions will not hurt Oligarch's as much as they hurt the Russian working class, they will not hurt Putin as much as the UK working class. Putin's regime is based on gangsterism and his actions are appalling, my point though is that NATO and the West have not helped matters at all.

There are so many angles to this, not just Putin bad, Ukraine good.

You understate putin, he is in the top 2 disgusting people in modern history. Appalling doesn’t come close, he is a cunting monster

 

[domalino]

I have expressed my thoughts that Putin is a ****, he is, but this is not a black and white situation. There are neo-Nazi's in the Donbass, the Azov battalion of the Ukranian army are notorious for being neo-Nazi. Are NATO now supporting Neo Nazis?

It just surprises me that people are so quick to toe the NATO/Western line. Sanctions will not hurt Oligarch's as much as they hurt the Russian working class, they will not hurt Putin as much as the UK working class. Putin's regime is based on gangsterism and his actions are appalling, my point though is that NATO and the West have not helped matters at all.

There are so many angles to this, not just Putin bad, Ukraine good.

It's like you've tried to cram as many Pro-Putin lines into one comment.

The Azov battalion is 900 people. In a country of 44,000,000. They are so statistically insignificant that the only reason you know about them is because Putin wants you to. Do you think there's 1,000 neo-nazis in the UK? Russia's Neo-Nazi Wagner group has 6-10,000 soldiers.

Secondly they are not in the Ukrainian army. They are a paramilitary organisation that - like all the volunteer armed groups fighting in Donbas and Luhansk - were brought into an official umbrella of the National Guard so they could be coordinated and receive foreign military aid.

It's not popular, but when you're being invaded you need all the help you can get, that's why they're arming civilians and releasing prisoners to fight.


It's 900 people out of 46,000 in the National Guard. It's 900 people out of 400,000 fighting for Ukraine. It's 900 people out of 44,000,000.

 

[Thornliebank]

I see Stop The War held a meeting and a zoom call in the past week calling for NATO to be disbanded and military bases in the West to be closed.
Which just confirms they are nothing more than a Communist front wanting the West overthrown.

 

[blueinsa]

The Irish Government are saying on the news that they will create an easy access site for information on how to host a refugee family.

Up until now I be been wondering how to go about it, so I’ll be watching for info.
I’ve discussed it with the missus and she’s onboard.

Wonderful gesture blue.

 

[citysince88]

There has been NATO tankers in the air over Romania and Moldova since the start of the conflict, there has also been NATO spy planes over the Black Sea, today there is a tanker over Krakow, a spy plane and a tanker over Romania. The other day there were F-17s from a US base in Italy over Romania.

Not very good spy planes if they're being tracked by Bluemooon!

 

[Rascal]

What's all that got to do with a Aeroflot passenger plane flight from Moscow -> Budapest - over Belarus then into Poland, then Slovakia, and landing in Hungary, through 3 'no fly' countries for Russian planes?

It's quite odd/different/unexpected and presumably currently unknown to the general public as to why it did.
Defection/escape?
Peace talks flight?

Edit: and I presume "F-17" is a typo, or if you've copied blindly from somewhere, I suggest you don't.

Typo it was F-15s and I thought it was as interesting as an Aeroflot flight to Budapest.

And thank you for your suggestions, i will follow them to the letter.

 

[Scottyboi]

You understate putin, he is in the top 2 disgusting people in modern history. Appalling doesn’t come close, he is a cunting monster

Soon as someone says ''But'' after saying someone is bad you know it is going to be full of excuses for the bad person.

I see Stop The War held a meeting and a zoom call in the past week calling for NATO to be disbanded and military bases in the West to be closed.
Which just confirms they are nothing more than a Communist front wanting the West overthrown.

Doing Putins bidding for him, they wouldn't last a month as part of the working class in Russia the scumbags.

 

[Ballymagash Blue]

The Irish Government are saying on the news that they will create an easy access site for information on how to host a refugee family.

Up until now I be been wondering how to go about it, so I’ll be watching for info.
I’ve discussed it with the missus and she’s onboard.

We’re onboard in Ballymagash too. Empty nesters, so……

 

[bonespost]

What's all that got to do with a Aeroflot passenger plane flight from Moscow -> Budapest - over Belarus then into Poland, then Slovakia, and landing in Hungary, through 3 'no fly' countries for Russian planes?

It's quite odd/different/unexpected and presumably currently unknown to the general public as to why it did.
Defection/escape?
Peace talks flight?

Edit: and I presume "F-17" is a typo, or if you've copied blindly from somewhere, I suggest you don't.

It was a Humanitarian flight.I shit you not .

 

[Tommy_Catons_Perm]

Respectfully Russ that was a lot of revisionist nonsense. Not because it’s a counter narrative but because it was nonsense. I’ll give you just one example he refers to the Soviet Union as a coalition of socialist states and the west an imperialist beast. Coalition? Such a cuddly description. Whereas the indisputable facts are there before you; the Russians suppressed nations with force after WW2 to create their empire - with fighting continuing into the 1960s before their brutality laid waste to peoples spirit whereas the west hasn’t made any imperial conquests whatsoever in that time, in fact any “expansion” has been achieved via voluntary membership. By all means dispute this, but if you can’t then you have to question the veracity of the rest of the article when this is just so obviously wrong.

I don’t doubt, and have said here before, that the US misjudged things after the Cold War and Putin rise to power is a product of that misjudgment. But this war is a product of Putin, and Putin alone. I’m sympathetic - like everyone would be - to Russia’s genuine concerns and I’m sympathetic to the way the west went about things - but none of those genuine concerns justify the invasion of another peaceful state and killing women and kids and laying waste to cities. No one need to make excuses for Putin, he is a spiteful little **** and he needs stopping - the sooner the better.

Anyroad at least you live in a free society where you can express an alternative narrative - that’s not a gift the Russians have anymore. But I’m sure that’s not because Putin knows this is an holy unjust war and he can only “justify” it by controlling the narrative.

Your last paragraph hits the nail firmly on the head. I imagine most western apologists for Putin have no experience of living behind the iron curtain.

 

[BringBackSwales]

NATO could have said NO.

Which is the whole point, NATO have been too eager to increase their membership and fuck everyone else. Was the dangers of this expansionism ever considered, doesn't look like it as it was too eager to increase its sphere of influence. By definition NATO is a defensive alliance, so why the expansionism?

Because other peace loving democratic countries want the benefits of a strong DEFENSIVE alliance. How you can look at the images of Ukraine and see anything other than 100% blame on putin and his cronies is staggering and disgusting. You are entitled to your view, my view is that you are a stupid aggression appeasing twat. This is the most appalling situation I have seen in my life, and I am an FOC.

 

[M18CTID]

I've already seen this same thing with Corbyn who recently blamed everything on NATO until that made him look like a complete tit so he had to say that Russia must leave Ukraine (but yeah NATO are still the baddies)..

It's not even apologist, it's because they aren't arsed about wars or oppressed people, all they're arsed about is anyone joining the evil western empire. They definitely can't stand the idea that maybe western integration is something that Ukraine and the eastern bloc countries want, or maybe they're just too stupid and so they keep voting for it.....

If you put these people into power then they'd be shooting their own population for not doing as they're told just like Putin is doing. They're usually Marxists and Stalinists and we all know very well of his history on looking after his own people....

It's fucking bizarre what some of these people are coming out with. Not just those on the far left but the far right too. I've got one guy on FB who I would describe as far left or close to it. When he's not spouting his anti-West rhetoric, he's actually a sound bloke. Only ever met him once - on Boxing Day 2014 on the Megabus coming back from West Brom away when he was over from Melbourne for Christmas. Anyway, he's been at it for the past week or so and it's always a case of shoe-horning the West into everything and comments like "I know Putin is no angel BUT......" with references to things like how many bombs were dropped on Afghanistan during Obama's presidency, and how many missiles NATO has pointed directly at Russia. He also thinks Putin is of sound mind ffs! He's also fallen for the Putin Donbas genocide propaganda line amongst other things. For someone who claims to be against imperialism, he seems to be making an awful lot of excuses for Putin trying to revive Russian imperialism.

What's even more bizarre is that despite his politics, instead of criticising Trump when he got in as president, he actually found it quite amusing!

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Oh well - we've made it to Friday, or as the media outlets like to sportify it "Day 9".
There's only one thing for it; tonight I'm going to party like it's 19999.

Everybody's got a bomb
We could all die any day.
But before I'll let that happen
I'll dance my life away, oh-oh-oh

 

[west didsblue]

I may have worded my comment a little clumsily but that was the point I was trying to make. That and the fact that Putin apologists (and of course, Putin himself) have seized on an opportunity to switch attention away from that dead-eyed fucker's culpability.

The fact that Putin has seized that opportunity is irrelevant. If that narrative wasn't available to him he'd have made it up anyway. Nearly everything he's said has been a lie. What difference does it make if there's a narrative that some people might think has an element of truth. People need to be clear eyed about this. Rather than banging on about NATO expansion, USA past behaviour, the British Empire and any number of other irrelevant things, the simple fact is that one country invaded another country for no reason other than to subjugate it and bring it under their control. Trying to second guess what goes on in Putin's head is better left to intelligence professionals and psychologists who can help advise the western response. Anyone latching on to Putin's narrative, even if it's qualified by them saying they don't agree with him, is creating division which is exactly what Putin wants. Fortunately it's mostly just cranks who can be ignored.

 

[BobKowalski]

I have expressed my thoughts that Putin is a ****, he is, but this is not a black and white situation. There are neo-Nazi's in the Donbass, the Azov battalion of the Ukranian army are notorious for being neo-Nazi. Are NATO now supporting Neo Nazis?

It just surprises me that people are so quick to toe the NATO/Western line. Sanctions will not hurt Oligarch's as much as they hurt the Russian working class, they will not hurt Putin as much as the UK working class. Putin's regime is based on gangsterism and his actions are appalling, my point though is that NATO and the West have not helped matters at all.

There are so many angles to this, not just Putin bad, Ukraine good.

Actually, no. For once this is a straightforward choice, which is why there has been such a unified, indeed emotional, reaction to this unwarranted and unprovoked aggression by Russia.

You can side with the good guys, or you can side with the bad guys. Just as with Nazi Germany, the choice is clear, so, which is it? Are you with the Ukrainians or the Russians on this? Do you support an military invasion by a fascist right wing regime on a neighbouring sovereign country or do you oppose it?

 

[Rascal]

It's like you've tried to cram as many Pro-Putin lines into one comment.

The Azov battalion is 900 people. In a country of 44,000,000. They are so statistically insignificant that the only reason you know about them is because Putin wants you to. Do you think there's 1,000 neo-nazis in the UK?

Secondly they are not in the Ukrainian army. That's simply a lie, they are a paramilitary organisation.

I apologise, I thought they were part of the official army, still they are dangerous.

Last February the Russian Federation Communist party called for an end to the Nazification of the Donbass and for a united Anti Fascist front to confront the Neo Nazi's.

 

[west didsblue]

I apologise, I thought they were part of the official army, still they are dangerous.

Last February the Russian Federation Communist party called for an end to the Nazification of the Donbass and for a united Anti Fascist front to confront the Neo Nazi's.

The way to de-nazify the Donbass would have been for Russia to withdraw its support to the separatists.

 

[BringBackSwales]

Tbf we are doing a fair bit of provocation ourselves establishing military stuff on the doorstep in eastern Europe.

Why shouldn’t democratic countries try and up join a defensive organisation? All they want is protection from mad cunts like putin, why shouldn’t they have a right to a peaceful defensive existence?

I apologise, I thought they were part of the official army, still they are dangerous.

Last February the Russian Federation Communist party called for an end to the Nazification of the Donbass and for a united Anti Fascist front to confront the Neo Nazi's.

so fucking what? You believe the russian propaganda? What fucking neo nazis? They are the invention of putin and cunts like putin, who support him and/or believe him. This is made up shit to try and justify GENOCIDE. Fuck off

 

[GaudinoMotors]

As always happens - the longer these things go on, the talking shops put forward more and more spurious arguments, turning inwardly and petty point scoring. By the end of next week it will all be David Attenborough's fault.
There's only one person to blame and condemn unanimously and that's the cabbage patch faced lunatic in the Kremlin.