Russian invasion of Ukraine

Aba452 said:
Cheesy, that's the politics of totalitarianism, that the far right and the far left end up being the same. For hitler, read stalin. Both with repressive, absolute police states, brutally liquidating an dissent. Bellicose aggression to expand their "living space" or sphere of influence. Shiny jackboots and shiny uniforms, people conditioned to think the same. Demonising and dehumanising your enemies, it's state oppression 1-0-1.

Our Vladimir would no doubt have been described by Le Care as a Karla trained Moscow Centre hood - KGB old skool. Yeltsin had him running Federal Security Bureau (FSB) who provide the same friendly secret police/ espionage/counter-espoinage service as their predecessors. He was based in East Germany when the Wall came down and it incensed him when the USSR collapsed.

Some people became mega rich with the privatisation of Russian state industries, though oddly enough not the Russian people themselves. Putin arrested and imprisoned the richest oligarch and the others fell into line. He and other states use all forms of media to divide opinion, forment dissent and promote his ideals.

Don't think he is or ever was a diehard communist. Instead over the last 20 years he's outed himself as ultra nationalist, fascistic actually. He harks back to the glory days of Peter the Great. FFS.

I think our entire political system is tainted by Russian money. You use money to pay for goods and services. To buy influence. Nothing's for nothing. We are going need widespread political reform here. EU actions have shamed us by our mealy mouthed response to refugees and even aid.

But it all goes back to one thing: Putin who is a war criminal. We've been losing our shit on here over the N word. Who needs nukes when you've got cluster bombs and thermobaric weapons?

Putin is a ****. A cunts **** who doesn't give a shot about his own people let alone the Ukrainians or Syrians that he's helping to bomb.

If you're reading this, Vladimir, I reckon those calendars of you riding bareback, posing with you shirt off, doing rugged manly things, they're shit. Ironically for someone so anti gay, it makes you look a bit ......gay! ;-)


PS I think you are a thundercunt and a twat banana of the highest order, you dwarf twat.
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I was talking in a more general sense really :)

It's the far left & far right who simply cannot (or refuse to) see that they may be wrong. They also seem to have the capacity to actually despise those who they don't agree with.
 
Rascal said:
I support Ukraine.

Yet have misgivings as to how it came to this. It was avoidable, but as long as people toe the NATO is untouchable line then war is the result.

As you may recall from the EU debate, I supported an EU armed forces independent of NATO who could act as a counter balance, but the anti-EU armed sentiments in the debate were huge, have you considered why?
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The reason for this is an EU army would be answerable to EU politicians and military action would fall under their power and not that of member countries. Do you want EU politicians to take us to war?

Again, NATO is not an army, it is not a political entity, it holds no territory and has no power over any country or jurisdiction to demand anyone does anything for its own foreign policy goals (because it has no foreign policy goals).

Many people keep getting confused and banging on about WMD's and Iraq but the intervention in Iraq had nothing to do with NATO. The last intervention by NATO was Libya but that was to enforce a no-fly zone and it was a decision backed by the UN.
 
blueinsa said:
Some are so invested in fighting the phoney class war that rages in their heads, the Tories, capitalism and their real enemy, Israel, so any opportunity, even if it means siding with a **** like Putin essentially can’t be passed up.
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It doest stop them making lots of money and living in fancy suburbs with fancy cars outside.
 
I really don’t know how anyone can read or listen to Putin and believe what he says.
You have to sift away the chaff and let logic decide what may be happening.
Imho he is shitting a brick at Ukraine’s eyes to the west. I believe Ukraine was once dubbed the bread basket of the old USSR.
He is like a bloke that would rather kill his wife for an alleged affair rather than her fall into the arms of her potential lover. Then threaten those who seek to prevent that murder.
That border with Ukraine is a sizeable chunk as is Finland’s with Russia.
 
Aba452 said:
Cheesy, that's the politics of totalitarianism, that the far right and the far left end up being the same. For hitler, read stalin. Both with repressive, absolute police states, brutally liquidating an dissent. Bellicose aggression to expand their "living space" or sphere of influence. Shiny jackboots and shiny uniforms, people conditioned to think the same. Demonising and dehumanising your enemies, it's state oppression 1-0-1.

Our Vladimir would no doubt have been described by Le Care as a Karla trained Moscow Centre hood - KGB old skool. Yeltsin had him running Federal Security Bureau (FSB) who provide the same friendly secret police/ espionage/counter-espoinage service as their predecessors. He was based in East Germany when the Wall came down and it incensed him when the USSR collapsed.

Some people became mega rich with the privatisation of Russian state industries, though oddly enough not the Russian people themselves. Putin arrested and imprisoned the richest oligarch and the others fell into line. He and other states use all forms of media to divide opinion, forment dissent and promote his ideals.

Don't think he is or ever was a diehard communist. Instead over the last 20 years he's outed himself as ultra nationalist, fascistic actually. He harks back to the glory days of Peter the Great. FFS.

I think our entire political system is tainted by Russian money. You use money to pay for goods and services. To buy influence. Nothing's for nothing. We are going need widespread political reform here. EU actions have shamed us by our mealy mouthed response to refugees and even aid.

But it all goes back to one thing: Putin who is a war criminal. We've been losing our shit on here over the N word. Who needs nukes when you've got cluster bombs and thermobaric weapons?

Putin is a ****. A cunts **** who doesn't give a shot about his own people let alone the Ukrainians or Syrians that he's helping to bomb.

If you're reading this, Vladimir, I reckon those calendars of you riding bareback, posing with you shirt off, doing rugged manly things, they're shit. Ironically for someone so anti gay, it makes you look a bit ......gay! ;-)


PS I think you are a thundercunt and a twat banana of the highest order, you dwarf twat.
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I love a rant myself. Man's a twat. Putin that is ;-)
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
NATO was essentially a cold war necessity to confront the very real threat of the Warsaw pact. With the benefit of hindsight we should probably have looked to wind down NATO during the 90's. I suppose though that with the old Soviet nuclear arsenal still very much there and European countries not willing or able to commit to the nessecary defense spending we still needed the us military presence in Europe. I think Europe/the EU could possibly extend to Ukraine etc in a benign way, but NATO membership just carries too much cold war (anti russian) baggage.
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None of the European members of NATO had the capacity to fight alone - this would have resulted in a build up of military in Europe. Nations that had cooperated would have found themselves in an arms race with each other - and probably towards nuclear weapons. The world would have become a more dangerous place. The missed opportunity was finding a European security structure that Russia could feel like a central member of - this was certainly an ambition of Yeltsin’s. Efforts were made with the partnership for peace and European security council but nothing that put Russia central.

Without this even EU expansion would have been eyed with as much suspicion as former countries of the soviet bloc joining or contemplating joining NATO. There would be nothing that would stop an EU army joining NATO, in fact it would be highly likely to - thus providing security to the EU member states - you’d have the USA and the USE facing Russia, China etc.

NATO did make mistakes at various points, but without malice. A moderate Russia could have influenced things - we have never, in modern times, sort war with Russia.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
The Irish Government are saying on the news that they will create an easy access site for information on how to host a refugee family.

Up until now I be been wondering how to go about it, so I’ll be watching for info.
I’ve discussed it with the missus and she’s onboard.
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We've agreed to do this too in the unlikely event that the UK government actually allow any in.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
We've agreed to do this too in the unlikely event that the UK government actually allow any in.
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Same here Dave so honourable.
I’ve asked for three 18-30 year old females :-)
Seriously we have two spare rooms and would prefer if they were children without parents but not essential.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Really?

How is it possible to avoid an invasion whose rationale is to force the uniting of the Slavic people?

That's what Putin has said.

I suggest taking him at his word.
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I am not disagreeing whether that is his aim or not.

But it is pretty ironic that on the one hand, people on here are happy to say they don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth, and then when it suits their narrative, what he says is gospel.

I have no idea whether that is truly an aim of his or not. Or just a dream perhaps, never to be realised. Or maybe it was an aim but then looking at the international response, he's thought better of it. This idea that having got Ukraine under his control, then it's Moldova next and then Finland etc. I guess we may find out more over coming months/years.
 
I’ve just seen the nuclear power plant attack - they’re reaching ISIS levels of insanity now. The stupid cunts could have wiped out themselves, alongside the whole of Eastern Europe.
 
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