Russian invasion of Ukraine

[hello]

MAD though. He seems absolutely nuts, but he seems to know what he's doing enough to know that it would mean no more Russia whereas falling back from Ukraine would only be a loss of face. Would he really hit NATO with a nuclear strike without NATO boots on the ground in Russia? Would even China back him on that one?

I’ve never been in a Russian goscc but I’ve been in uk, us & nato ones for many years, and would think his first response to any nato conflict against Russian forces in neutral territory I.e Ukraine his first act would be to shit himself, his 2nd to ready icbms his 3rd wipe his arse, his 4th try to circumvent his own launch protocols.

 

[Irwell]

I’ve never been in a Russian goscc but I’ve been in uk, us & nato ones for many years, and would think his first response to any nato conflict against Russian forces in neutral territory I.e Ukraine his first act would be to shit himself, his 2nd to ready icbms his 3rd wipe his arse, his 4th try to circumvent his own launch protocols.

Which is why I suggested clear, public boundaries in advance. Give him a chance to withdraw and an understanding of where the line is drawn if he doesn't. It's a clear decision that way, and I don't think he could prepare a counter-offensive in 48 hours. I'm pretty confident his own military would finally pull the trigger if he tried a nuclear launch without boots on Russian soil.

 

[bumbleblue]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60532634?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6222b215ec502b53cd480ba8%26Russians%20closing%20in%20on%20another%20nuclear%20plant%20-%20US%20envoy%262022-03-05T01%3A26%3A08.450Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:e55f266a-a5e8-494c-8abc-58ed0c1ffb30&pinned_post_asset_id=6222b215ec502b53cd480ba8&pinned_post_type=share

Russians closing on second biggest nuclear power plant… wtf are they up to now the murderous twats.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I'm probably outnumbered on this one but I'm in the 'call his bluff' camp. It's called mutually assured destruction for a reason. Give 48 hours for indication of a withdrawal or a peacekeeping force will be sent in and make it clear that force will be used but only as far as the borders. Put forces in the west of Ukraine and use that as a base of operations. The Russian military is clearly in too weak a place to fight on the front foot and Putin isn't stupid enough to go nuclear.

you are right in a way because NATO is a defensive not an offensive organisation - but yes run a massive defensive deployment from Finland down to the Black Sea - armour - a/a capability the lot and tell him one inch anywhere and Russia is toast

 

[Irwell]

you are right in a way because NATO is a defensive not an offensive organisation - but yes run a massive defensive deployment from Finland down to the Black Sea - armour - a/a capability the lot and tell him one inch anywhere and Russia is toast

Where do you draw the line though? Is it acceptable for Russia to take every non-NATO country? How about they take them, hold them for a few years while they build up resources and then use those resources against NATO countries? For me, the line isn't drawn at NATO nations. As far as I'm concerned the invasion of any sovereign nation should result in intervention if that is what the people of that nation request.

 

[hello]

Where do you draw the line though? Is it acceptable for Russia to take every non-NATO country? How about they take them, hold them for a few years while they build up resources and then use those resources against NATO countries? For me, the line isn't drawn at NATO nations. As far as I'm concerned the invasion of any sovereign nation should result in intervention if that is what the people of that nation request.

Unfortunately sovereign territory disputes need UN Security Council resolution which funny enough Russia veto’ed they’ve veto’ed about half of all resolutions in the last 70 years

 

[KS55]

During the Blitz in 1941 American journalist Ed Murrow did a series of radio broadcasts to the U.S., each beginning "This is London." In one of them he said "The people of this island would rather stand up and face death than kneel down and accept the fate that the conqueror would inflict upon them." That was London in 1941, now it's Kiev in 2022.

Ed Murrow is one of my heroes. He was -CBS radio correpondent. Did a lot to persuade Americans away from their belief that we were doomed. Didn't we give him some honorary award? After the war he waged a campaign against the Unamerican Activities Committee. A great man.

 

[idahoblues]

Ed Murrow is one of my heroes. He was -CBS radio correpondent. Did a lot to persuade Americans away from their belief that we were doomed. Didn't we give him some honorary award? After the war he waged a campaign against the Unamerican Activities Committee. A great man.

America is a very misunderstood nation.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

America is a very misunderstood nation.

Sleeping with your sisters is just wrong mate

 

[idahoblues]

Sleeping with your sisters is just wrong mate

I’ll pm you some pics

 

[KS55]

To my comments on Ed Murrow, I could have added that at the same time he was urging America to support us, the US Ambassador, one Joseph Kennedy, was shouting loudly that we were doomed and should not be supported. He was "expelled" from UK, without any reason being given publicly. The papers are sealed for 100 years but it is believed that he was in cahoots with the IRA campaign in N.I. Joseph Kennedy, the father of JFK etc, was very anti British, pro Irish.

 

[KS55]

America is a very misunderstood nation.

Expand pls.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

Ed Murrow is one of my heroes. He was -CBS radio correpondent. Did a lot to persuade Americans away from their belief that we were doomed. Didn't we give him some honorary award? After the war he waged a campaign against the Unamerican Activities Committee. A great man.

I think Churchill wanted him to run the BBC but he said no. Murrow flew on many bombing raids on Germany to get a first-hand view, more than he should have done given the crews' survival rate. Sorry for sidetracking the Ukraine thread, except that many of the journalists (Anderson Cooper for example) are carrying on his work of honest & fearless reporting.

 

[KS55]

I think Churchill wanted him to run the BBC but he said no. Murrow flew on many bombing raids on Germany to get a first-hand view, more than he should have done given the crews' survival rate. Sorry for sidetracking the Ukraine thread, except that many of the journalists (Anderson Cooper for example) are carrying on his work of honest & fearless reporting.

This is entirely relevant for historical context. Just looked it up: Murrow was awarded an honorary knighthood in 1965, just before he died. Better late than never.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Two interesting takes on the situation.

 

[urban genie]

Am as usual over here we start being stupid.



Firstly the fella was german and lived in Manchester.
Secondly he decried and criticised the russian empire
Thirdly his wrote in his papers he believed in self determimation for Ukraine, belarus and the baltic regions.

This is as daft as when we renamed German Shepherds and many streets named after Germans and pretended the royal family weren't bavarian in 1914.


Most replies are critcising the mill and Home for either attenton seeking, knee jerk wokeism or being clueless about history, they have updated they won't remove it but want to tell the story of it to better explain it's existance and ties to Ukraine (where the artsist found it)

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Am as usual over here we start being stupid.



Firstly the fella was german and lived in Manchester.
Secondly he decried and criticised the russian empire
Thirdly his wrote in his papers he believed in self determimation for Ukraine, belarus and the baltic regions.

This is as daft as when we renamed German Shepherds and many streets named after Germans and pretended the royal family weren't bavarian in 1914.


Most replies are critcising the mill and Home for either attenton seeking, knee jerk wokeism or being clueless about history, they have updated they won't remove it but want to tell the story of it to better explain it's existance and ties to Ukraine (where the artsist found it)

Ffs, you'd have thought the offended brigade would at least have looked him up on wiki before making arses of themselves

 

[Rascal]

Take it private, we don't need it in this thread.

Weird really, I posted an opinion piece from a Marxist perspective.

I did not endorse the article, i posted it so that other posters could read that different perspectives from the prevailing BM perspective were available. The article was then moderated.

Has BM become like Putin's Russia were censorship is rife and only the official party line is tolerated. I wonder if many of the people who aimed abuse at me see the irony in that.

Anyway you can not beat a good BM pile on, but I am a big boy, I can take abuse, but remember I can also give it out, especially to those who think that by myself posting an article makes me some sort of idiot. Thanks to those who gave me abuse, you proved my point quite beautifully. You are the victims of propaganda in exactly the same way that the Russian people are victims of Putin's propaganda.

 

[urban genie]

Ffs, you'd have thought the offended brigade would at least have looked him up on wiki before making arses of themselves

From this I learnt a little bit about our own history, I never knew the term Alsatian was made up in 1914 because all things German were considered despised, also the sausage dog, a victorian favourite pet breed had people beating and stoning them for their german name.

War brings out prejudice and ignorance in the most human way, heard some shops have removed tchaikovsky off the shelves, I understand the boycott of russian goods that bring in money to Russia, but to suddenly ban or hate all things russian throughout history seems a tad OTT, will we destroy all of waterstones copies of Tolstoy next.

 

[KS55]

From this I learnt a little bit about our own history, I never knew the term Alsatian was made up in 1914 because all things German were considered despised, also the sausage dog, a victorian favourite pet breed had people beating and stoning them for their german name.

War brings out prejudice and ignorance in the most human way, heard some shops have removed tchaikovsky off the shelves, I understand the boycott of russian goods that bring in money to Russia, but to suddenly ban or hate all things russian throughout history seems a tad OTT, will we destroy all of waterstones copies of Tolstoy next.

1917 royal family name changed to Windsor from Saxe Coburg Gotha Battenburg. Now, Tolstoy off the shelves, tv series cancelled. Yet when Ms Alsopp pointed out that we were going OTT on the cultural dimension, people piled on. D'oh.