Today's shooting in America thread

[Slipper One]

This is completely untrue.

Gun crime has gone down in every single country in the world that has banned the sale of firearms.

THe idea that there's good guys who should have guns and bad guys who shouldn't have guns would be embarassing coming from a 9 year old. Everyone is a good guy with a gun until they commit a crime, and then it's too late.

No, not everybody owning a gun goes on to commit a crime, that's just a very naïve comment. I have two and I have no intention of using them illegally.

As for banning guns, the National Police Federation (who I assume know what they are talking about) do nit support banning guns............

"It also does not address:

• criminal activity,
• illegal firearms proliferation,
• gang crime,
• illegal guns crossing the border or
• the criminal use of firearms.

In fact, it diverts extremely important personnel, resources, and funding away from addressing the more immediate and growing threat of criminal use of illegal firearms."

-------------

As for everywhere that has banned guns, gun ownership is allowed here.......

"Year-end data shows that shootings and firearm discharges in province’s most populous city (Toronto) have actually decreased from a record-high 492 incidents in 2019 to 409 in 2021."

--------------

"The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police won't be supporting a call for a ban on handguns despite concerns about gun violence in a number of major cities including Toronto."


Criminal/gang activity is the issue with gun crime, not the general public owning a gun. Ban guns and they will still use them for crime.

The US has a huge cultural gun issue, one that we don't. Take away guns from our criminal fraternity and gun crime would drop to pretty much zero.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

No, not everybody owning a gun goes on to commit a crime, that's just a very naïve comment. I have two and I have no intention of using them illegally.

I stopped read here.

All gun owners believe they are the good guys up until the point they go on a rampage.

 

[Slipper One]

I stopped read here.

All gun owners believe they are the good guys up until the point they go on a rampage.

You may want to read a little further then, the parts in italics which are the views of the experts.

 

[NPBlue]

No, not everybody owning a gun goes on to commit a crime, that's just a very naïve comment. I have two and I have no intention of using them illegally.

As for banning guns, the National Police Federation (who I assume know what they are talking about) do nit support banning guns............

"It also does not address:

• criminal activity,
• illegal firearms proliferation,
• gang crime,
• illegal guns crossing the border or
• the criminal use of firearms.

In fact, it diverts extremely important personnel, resources, and funding away from addressing the more immediate and growing threat of criminal use of illegal firearms."

-------------

As for everywhere that has banned guns, gun ownership is allowed here.......

"Year-end data shows that shootings and firearm discharges in province’s most populous city (Toronto) have actually decreased from a record-high 492 incidents in 2019 to 409 in 2021."

--------------

"The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police won't be supporting a call for a ban on handguns despite concerns about gun violence in a number of major cities including Toronto."


Criminal/gang activity is the issue with gun crime, not the general public owning a gun. Ban guns and they will still use them for crime.

The US has a huge cultural gun issue, one that we don't. Take away guns from our criminal fraternity and gun crime would drop to pretty much zero.

For the 12 months to March 2021, the number of murders in the UK was 594 people, in a country of 60 million or so, of which 35 were killed by guns. There isn't a breakdown of why those 35 people were shot, but it was probably gang related.

The firearm related death rate in the UK is 0.23 per 100,000 of the poulation. In Canada it is 2.05.

We have gangs and crimnals too.

The only time I've seen any guns in the UK is at an airport, being carried by highly trained officers looking bored out of their minds. In all my years, I have only known one person who shot for a hobby, and he didn't own a gun.

I guess we'll never agree, but can't you see just how weird your normalisation of gun ownership looks to those of us living in countries without a gun culture?

 

[Slipper One]

For the 12 months to March 2021, the number of murders in the UK was 594 people, in a country of 60 million or so, of which 35 were killed by guns. There isn't a breakdown of why those 35 people were shot, but it was probably gang related.

The firearm related death rate in the UK is 0.23 per 100,000 of the poulation. In Canada it is 2.05.

We have gangs and crimnals too.

The only time I've seen any guns in the UK is at an airport, being carried by highly trained officers looking bored out of their minds. In all my years, I have only known one person who shot for a hobby, and he didn't own a gun.

I guess we'll never agree, gun culture

...........and of that rate of 2.05, most would be attributed to gang/drug issues.

Banning guns will not change that and that's why the police see that there is no need to change our present laws. I'm sure if they would if they felt there was an issue or greater threat to their officers.

Please don't align our 'gun culture' with that of the US, it's not the same. We do have our fair share of rednecks, but they'll have a gun, legal or otherwise, as will the criminal element. The vast majority of gun owning people have them for hunting or recreational shooting.

There is a thorough vetting system in place to obtain a firearms licence here. If I go and buy ammunition, then I have to produce that licence and the transaction is recorded, even buying air rifle pellets is recorded. Restricted weapons are illegal here, unlike south of the border.

It's clear we won't agree and you are more than welcome to your point of view.

"but can't you see just how weird your normalization of gun ownership looks to those of us living in countries without a gun culture?"

Unlike you, I know plenty of people in the UK who are gun owners and I don't think they would consider it weird regarding the normalization of gun ownership for their sporting requirements. It's simply a case of being responsible regarding your ownership. You wouldn't suggest banning cars simply because some irresponsible people cause death by driving them. I could look up the figures, but I'd expect vehicle deaths to far outweigh firearm deaths in both countries.

If you take away the the criminal/drug/gang related deaths from the figures in the UK or Canada, the actual numbers would be quite small. It's not the ownership that is the problem, it's the criminal element. With us having the US as a neighbour, it's never going to stop and every drug dealer this side of the border will be continue to be armed, with firearms banned or otherwise......and related deaths will continue year on year.

 

[SWP's back]

No, not everybody owning a gun goes on to commit a crime, that's just a very naïve comment. I have two and I have no intention of using them illegally.

As for banning guns, the National Police Federation (who I assume know what they are talking about) do nit support banning guns............

"It also does not address:

• criminal activity,
• illegal firearms proliferation,
• gang crime,
• illegal guns crossing the border or
• the criminal use of firearms.

In fact, it diverts extremely important personnel, resources, and funding away from addressing the more immediate and growing threat of criminal use of illegal firearms."

-------------

As for everywhere that has banned guns, gun ownership is allowed here.......

"Year-end data shows that shootings and firearm discharges in province’s most populous city (Toronto) have actually decreased from a record-high 492 incidents in 2019 to 409 in 2021."

--------------

"The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police won't be supporting a call for a ban on handguns despite concerns about gun violence in a number of major cities including Toronto."


Criminal/gang activity is the issue with gun crime, not the general public owning a gun. Ban guns and they will still use them for crime.

The US has a huge cultural gun issue, one that we don't. Take away guns from our criminal fraternity and gun crime would drop to pretty much zero.

Such a load of absolute wank in one post.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Fuck me.

The Tories tried that argument after Dunblaine

I think in some instances, it’s an argument that isn’t without complete merit. The normalisation of killing people en masse, even in the setting of a video game, must have a tendency to effect the disposition of some people with pre-existing mental health issues towards going on a killing spree. Perfectly stands to reason. The fact those two cunts have dishonestly deployed it as the principal cause, when the US’s gun laws and culture manifestly are, doesn’t mean that isn’t a contributory factor in some instances, as much as drink and drugs might be in certain cases.

I fail to see how it can be dismissed out of hand, when fantasy and reality are so closely related. Some people live out their fantasies. Sometimes with little or no regard for the consequences to others, or the cost to human life.

That doesn’t mean I think they should be banned btw. The overall impact is negligible, especially in this country, but to suggest it plays absolutely no role I believe would be wrong.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

For the 12 months to March 2021, the number of murders in the UK was 594 people, in a country of 60 million or so, of which 35 were killed by guns. There isn't a breakdown of why those 35 people were shot, but it was probably gang related.

The firearm related death rate in the UK is 0.23 per 100,000 of the poulation. In Canada it is 2.05.

We have gangs and crimnals too.

The only time I've seen any guns in the UK is at an airport, being carried by highly trained officers looking bored out of their minds. In all my years, I have only known one person who shot for a hobby, and he didn't own a gun.

I guess we'll never agree, but can't you see just how weird your normalisation of gun ownership looks to those of us living in countries without a gun culture?

The “normalization” is because it has ALWAYS BEEN NORMAL. The use of that term suggests abnormality, which is completely false.

You can feel as you want about whether it should be normal or not, but to suggest it has EVER been any other way is intellectually dishonest.

I am wholly in favor of strict and enforced penalties for anyone who commits a crime with a gun…loaded or unloaded, used of simply wielded.

33 shot and 5 murdered in Chicago this weekend, as we had a mini heatwave that had everyone outdoors.

Accordingly, this Summer is going to be a bloodbath, as always, when the heat gets turned up!

However, the biggest problem people seem to have is that it appears to be migrating from being relatively contained in South Side neighborhood, tit for tat, banger shootings into Downtown Chicago, with more and more “give me your phone/wallet/valuables” mugging sand shootings in prime retail and restaurant districts.

It’s not going to be pretty and I have told my kids to steer clear of the city this summer! That’s just sad, given that is when Chicago excels!

Disclaimer: I am the owner of 3 Glocks handguns and, apparently, only a hair trigger from a “rampage,” so I could be part of the problem?! smh

 

[SWP's back]

I think in some instances, it’s an argument that isn’t without complete merit. The normalisation of killing people en masse, even in the setting of a video game, must have a tendency to effect the disposition of some people with pre-existing mental health issues towards going on a killing spree. Perfectly stands to reason. The fact those two cunts have dishonestly deployed it as the principal cause, when the US’s gun laws and culture manifestly are, doesn’t mean that isn’t a contributory factor in some instances, as much as drink and drugs might be in certain cases.

I fail to see how it can be dismissed out of hand, when fantasy and reality are so closely related. Some people live out their fantasies. Sometimes with little or no regard for the consequences to others, or the cost to human life.

That doesn’t mean I think they should be banned btw. The overall impact is negligible, especially in this country, but to suggest it plays absolutely no role I believe would be wrong.

But we have a long running study in the real world in that every country has teenagers that play first person shooters and yet it’s only the US that has mass shootings as a weekly occurrence. If video games played any part then we’d see far more mass shootings in the rest of the developed world.

 

[SWP's back]

The “normalization” is because it has ALWAYS BEEN NORMAL. The use of that term suggests abnormality, which is completely false.

You can feel as you want about whether it should be normal or not, but to suggest it has EVER been any other way is intellectually dishonest.

I am wholly in favor of strict and enforced penalties for anyone who commits a crime with a gun…loaded or unloaded, used of simply wielded.

33 shot and 5 murdered in Chicago this weekend, as we had a mini heatwave that had everyone outdoors.

Accordingly, this Summer is going to be a bloodbath, as always, when the heat gets turned up!

However, the biggest problem people seem to have is that it appears to be migrating from being relatively contained in South Side neighborhood, tit for tat, banger shootings into Downtown Chicago, with more and more “give me your phone/wallet/valuables” mugging sand shootings in prime retail and restaurant districts.

It’s not going to be pretty and I have told my kids to steer clear of the city this summer! That’s just sad, given that is when Chicago excels!

Disclaimer: I am the owner of 3 Glocks handguns and, apparently, only a hair trigger from a “rampage,” so I could be part of the problem?! smh

Yes, yes you could. There are a huge number of examples of fine upstanding and law abiding citizens that legally own gun losing the plot and committing mass killings. They probably also felt they could shake their heads at the thought until they snapped.