US Politics Thread

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Labels arenr useful. They are simply a cudgel used to beat back legitimate opposition. What Ultra Right Wing simply means a Racist. I.e a race essentialist of the White Racist type.

What about Desantis makes him a White supremacists. Coz that's really what Ulyra-Rifht is code for. Or better yet, define what you mean by Ultra Right and explain how that applies to Desantis.



FFS! How long are you gonna milk that? Who gives a fuck what Trump thinks about his lost election. We are talking about 2024.

And Desantis being a potential candidate. What does that have to do with Trump. BTW, I'm guessing the 'Big Lie' is Trump claiming the election was stolen? I haven't been watching enough MSNBC of late to keep up with the Lingo.




Evidence. Provide evidence?????



1. You need evidence not left leaning claims. Again I'll repeat Georgia is having a record turnout of voters despite all the 'suppression fear mongering" that went on all through the last two years. Including Black turn out.

2. Where are they busy doing all these vote doesn't matter work? Certainly, not in Georgia.

3. There was evidence of fraud. There always is evidence of fraud. But most common sense people didn't think it was enough to warrant holding up the Republic from continuing. Including Trump supporters who felt that way.

4. But none of that is relevant to your accusations.

And you persist. And persist.

To keep things on point - let's just focus on The Big Lie.

The Big Lie is that massive, widespread election fraud existing in the 2020 election, without which Trump would have handily won the Presidency.

Most Republicans, as evinced by numerous surveys, believe in the Big Lie.

And numerous states are ensuring that election officials who believe in The Big Lie will be in charge of overseeing future elections.

Disagree with any of the above? It's common widespread, nonpartisan knowledge. I'll provide numerous citations if you're in doubt.

So what do you call sentiment that believes that popular vote should be thrown out in favor of vote in alignment with your own? I'd call that "fascism" - feel free to provide some other label.

Although I think that most Republicans are Nazi leaning/supportive - racist, anti emigration, anti-LGBTQ, anti-atheist, anti-science and so on - let's just assume that Republicans don't believe in such. Let's just assume that they believe in The Big Lie and all that it entails - er, that's not an assumption - it's a fact.

So... should we call such Republicans - Democrats - that is, in favor of free popular vote (and not of the Democratic party)? Or should we call them Fascist's - in favor of their own viewpoint regardless of popular opinion?

Really, it's not a hard choice at all - Republicans, by-in-large, are no longer in favor of Democracy - they do not favor the result of popular elections at all, except when the outcome is in line with their beliefs. They are, in fact, fascist.

And I do not employ the term "fascist" simply as a derogatory label - I employ the term as descriptive.

Fascist means: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.

This is the essence of the Big Lie. Trump is the dictator, and whatever he says goes - votes be damned. The caveat of course is that Trump is ultra Right and expresses what they want and believe in.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

And you persist. And persist.

To keep things on point - let's just focus on The Big Lie.

The Big Lie is that massive, widespread election fraud existing in the 2020 election, without which Trump would have handily won the Presidency.

Most Republicans, as evinced by numerous surveys, believe in the Big Lie.

And numerous states are ensuring that election officials who believe in The Big Lie will be in charge of overseeing future elections.

Disagree with any of the above? It's common widespread, nonpartisan knowledge. I'll provide numerous citations if you're in doubt.

So what do you call sentiment that believes that popular vote should be thrown out in favor of vote in alignment with your own? I'd call that "fascism" - feel free to provide some other label.

Although I think that most Republicans are Nazi leaning/supportive - racist, anti emigration, anti-LGBTQ, anti-atheist, anti-science and so on - let's just assume that Republicans don't believe in such. Let's just assume that they believe in The Big Lie and all that it entails - er, that's not an assumption - it's a fact.

So... should we call such Republicans - Democrats - that is, in favor of free popular vote (and not of the Democratic party)? Or should we call them Fascist's - in favor of their own viewpoint regardless of popular opinion?

Really, it's not a hard choice at all - Republicans, by-in-large, are no longer in favor of Democracy - they do not favor the result of popular elections at all, except when the outcome is in line with their beliefs. They are, in fact, fascist.

And I do not employ the term "fascist" simply as a derogatory label - I employ the term as descriptive.

Fascist means: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.

This is the essence of the Big Lie. Trump is the dictator, and whatever he says goes - votes be damned. The caveat of course is that Trump is ultra Right and expresses what they want and believe in.

I will disagree slightly in your assertion that all Republican believe in the 'Big Lie' - They don't. They just perpetuate it because it serves a purpose, which in my opinion is worse than actually believing it to be true.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I will disagree slightly in your assertion that all Republican believe in the 'Big Lie' - They don't. They just perpetuate it because it serves a purpose, which in my opinion is worse than actually believing it to be true.

Clearly not all Republicans believe in TBL. And I never claimed such. I claimed that, "Most Republicans, as evinced by numerous surveys, believe in the Big Lie." And that is 100% fact, as evinced by poll after poll after poll and by a plethora of anecdotal reports describing the abuse against anyone holding a contrary opinion in Red districts.

Trump elevated the Republican versus Democratic difference of opinion into a massive existential divide - to the extent that Republicans are told that their very existence is in danger due to socialist Democratic miscreants.

And you'd better believe that this mindset is now true - Democrats are socialist snowflakes, Satan-worshiping pedophiles, some (many? most?) of who are lizard people - deserving of contempt at least if not jailing and execution.

 

[Dax777]

And you persist. And persist.

To keep things on point - let's just focus on The Big Lie.

Why? No one give a fuck about Trump's election. People give a fuck about their lives. It's sucks right now. And they blame the party in power. Period!

The 'Big Lie' is simply an attempt toake relevant an irrelevant story. Trump lost. Challenged the election. And lost in the courts. Biden got sworn in. We have 2 years of Biden rule. That's what the coming elections are about. The last 2 years and whether we want more or less of it.

The Big Lie is that massive, widespread election fraud existing in the 2020 election, without which Trump would have handily won the Presidency.

Most Republicans, as evinced by numerous surveys, believe in the Big Lie.

Let's even suppose this is true. None of them are rioting or marching in multiple States with "He is not my President" banners.

Suggesting, they've accepted the results and are preparing for a midterm based on what they've experienced.

The only people talking about the 'Big lie' are leftist activists trying their best toale it a thing. But it isn't. No one cares. Not even rank and file Democrats.

And numerous states are ensuring that election officials who believe in The Big Lie will be in charge of overseeing future elections.

This is a manipulated claim. Like Georgia, many States reverted their election laws back to what it was Pre-Covid requirements. COVID allowed for laxxed laws to afford people the opportunity to vote. But those laxxed laws also made fraud easier. Going back to safer, more secure voting practices isn't 'believing in the big lie.' Again, I give you Georgia as an example!!!!

Disagree with any of the above? It's common widespread, nonpartisan knowledge. I'll provide numerous citations if you're in doubt.

I don't care about leftist framing of what's important. Economy, Safety, Health, Crime, Foreign Policy e.t.c are what matters in an election. That hasn't changed. And it won't in these elections.

So what do you call sentiment that believes that popular vote should be thrown out in favor of vote in alignment with your own? I'd call that "fascism" - feel free to provide some other label.

I call such beliefs a leftist delusion. And an attempt to discuss everything but the things that matter to the people.

Inflation, Has Prices, Baby food shortage, Border mess, incompetent officials etc. These are the issues Americans will vote on. Not 'the Big Lie' or any such nonsensical Leftist conceptions.

Although I think that most Republicans are Nazi leaning/supportive - racist, anti emigration, anti-LGBTQ, anti-atheist, anti-science and so on - let's just assume that Republicans don't believe in such. Let's just assume that they believe in The Big Lie and all that it entails - er, that's not an assumption - it's a fact.

Again, notice how you are consumed with the Big Lie. You've been manipulated to think an election from 2 years ago is important. It isn't.

What is happening in the lives of Americans TODAY is!

So... should we call such Republicans - Democrats - that is, in favor of free popular vote (and not of the Democratic party)? Or should we call them Fascist's - in favor of their own viewpoint regardless of popular opinion?

We should judge them by the fruits of their efforts. Example, they tweaked their voting laws in many ways and the outcome has been the highest voting turnout in State history.

I'd say that's pretty-pro-Democracy. Won't you?

Really, it's not a hard choice at all - Republicans, by-in-large, are no longer in favor of Democracy - they do not favor the result of popular elections at all, except when the outcome is in line with their beliefs. They are, in fact, fascist.

ideology without evidence is boring. Safe it for the choir. I don't believe you, nor does the evidence.

And I do not employ the term "fascist" simply as a derogatory label - I employ the term as descriptive.

Fascist means: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government.

Setting up a Ministry of Truth. Suppressing news of Hunter Biden's laptop. Suppressing discussion of Lab Leak theory.

Yeah, you are right. I too worry sometimes. Then I realize we have elections :)

This is the essence of the Big Lie. Trump is the dictator, and whatever he says goes - votes be damned. The caveat of course is that Trump is ultra Right and expresses what they want and believe in.

The dictator who couldn't win. Who every station except Fox opposes and he doesn't do anything about it. Who got kicked of the modern puplic square ....

Dude, you don't know what a dictator is. I grew up in a Country with a dictator. So I know you are clueless on that point.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Clearly not all Republicans believe in TBL. And I never claimed such. I claimed that, "Most Republicans, as evinced by numerous surveys, believe in the Big Lie." And that is 100% fact.

I agree that the majority publicly declare themselves to be believers in the big lie. I doubt whether they actually believe it given all the evidence to the contrary (the many cases thrown out at every level of the courts do to there being zero evidence of fraud); they are way more calculating than stupid. If they genuinely did believe it then I wouldn't trust them to run a bath, let alone play any part in the legislative process of running a country.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Why? No one give a fuck about Trump's election. People give a fuck about their lives. It's sucks right now. And they blame the party in power. Period!

The 'Big Lie' is simply an attempt toake relevant an irrelevant story. Trump lost. Challenged the election. And lost in the courts. Biden got sworn in. We have 2 years of Biden rule. That's what the coming elections are about. The last 2 years and whether we want more or less of it.


Let's even suppose this is true. None of them are rioting or marching in multiple States with "He is not my President" banners.

Suggesting, they've accepted the results and are preparing for a midterm based on what they've experienced.

The only people talking about the 'Big lie' are leftist activists trying their best toale it a thing. But it isn't. No one cares. Not even rank and file Democrats.


This is a manipulated claim. Like Georgia, many States reverted their election laws back to what it was Pre-Covid requirements. COVID allowed for laxxed laws to afford people the opportunity to vote. But those laxxed laws also made fraud easier. Going back to safer, more secure voting practices isn't 'believing in the big lie.' Again, I give you Georgia as an example!!!!


I don't care about leftist framing of what's important. Economy, Safety, Health, Crime, Foreign Policy e.t.c are what matters in an election. That hasn't changed. And it won't in these elections.

I call such beliefs a leftist delusion. And an attempt to discuss everything but the things that matter to the people.

Inflation, Has Prices, Baby food shortage, Border mess, incompetent officials etc. These are the issues Americans will vote on. Not 'the Big Lie' or any such nonsensical Leftist conceptions.


Again, notice how you are consumed with the Big Lie. You've been manipulated to think an election from 2 years ago is important. It isn't.

What is happening in the lives of Americans TODAY is!


We should judge them by the fruits of their efforts. Example, they tweaked their voting laws in many ways and the outcome has been the highest voting turnout in State history.

I'd say that's pretty-pro-Democracy. Won't you?



ideology without evidence is boring. Safe it for the choir. I don't believe you, nor does the evidence.

Setting up a Ministry of Truth. Suppressing news of Hunter Biden's laptop. Suppressing discussion of Lab Leak theory.

Yeah, you are right. I too worry sometimes. Then I realize we have elections :)





The dictator who couldn't win. Who every station except Fox opposes and he doesn't do anything about it. Who got kicked of the modern puplic square ....

Dude, you don't know what a dictator is. I grew up in a Country with a dictator. So I know you are clueless on that point.

Here's a thought... stop watching Fox "News" for 6 months or so. Watch, instead, PBS. PBS Newshour is very factual - but probably has a bias towards the Left, albeit unintentional (Newshour aims for neutrality and factual reporting, but everyone employed by Newshour is likely Democratic and thus bias creeps in - for example, in what stories are covered).

The Right in the USA is seeking to end Democracy. This is clear to me as a centrist. And this viewpoint has been echoed by prominent voices far to the right of me.

You are oblivious to this - because you watch Fox "News" and other outlets to exclusion.

Wake up dude.

Those outlets are clearly anti-science; not by design per se - but because that's what their viewership wants to believe. Fox is the Demagogue Channel. Continue watching Fox if you're a sheeple in need of an echo chamber.

 

[mancity1]

I was banned mostly from posts made in other Bluemoon forums - try, for example, stating anything positive about Liverpool - for example that Jurgen Klopp is a top manager - and you're fucked. Or posting in defense of LGBGQ rights in any forum other than this. Again you're fucked.

TBF though - I think that my banning was mostly down to horrible moderators... many of whom no longer moderate. And secondly due to several very toxic posters - who have themselves been banned.

Bluemoon Forums by in large is a far far better site to visit, read and participate in than the forums of, say, 5 years or so ago.

Yes I remember the days when you would be banned for using the term by in large as opposed to by and large in the slaughtering the English Language thread and the poster of the correction being banned for being deliberately petty.

As for Liverpool well isn't that still a 4 letter word.

 

[Dax777]

The Right in the USA is seeking to end Democracy. This is clear to me as a centrist. And this viewpoint has been echoed by prominent voices far to the right of me.

I'm ignoring everything else you've said so we can focus on this:

What evidence do you have that Republicans are seeking to end Democracy.

I don't care about your opinion, just the facts and evidence upon which that opinion is based.


Let's ignore everything else for now. Links and articles are fine.

3rd time I'm asking you for evidence, btw!

 

[mancity1]

I believe in the vote too.

That's Democracy.

Republicans, writ large, do not believe in Democracy. They believe that any result not in their favor is obviously wrong - and must be over-turned. This is the "Big Lie." You, unfortunately, are part of the Lie - as you do nothing whatsoever to oppose this horrid viewpoint. Fucking Nazi's are about to take over America - in no small part due to the likes of cowards/sheep like you who won't oppose what's obviously going on.

if that was the case in the US for example then they would not vote at all at any election as their belief would determine their mindset and hence their action or inaction in this case so to speak.

You confuse science with truth and ones own truth.

Even Trump uses Democracy as a base for his own truth as he claims he was robbed because he believed or at least gave the impression more voters voted for him than Biden so to speak where it mattered ( I don't think for example he asked for a recount in California ) . it was just Trump being Trump and if he actually believes this is only guilty of being deluded and factually incorrect.

Some of your generalisations are a little over the top don't you think?

Despite all its flaws America still represents what is good and bad about living in a Democracy but if you seriously believe your assertions and that is all they are then you might prefer to move to North Korea , China and Russia and enjoy real Democracy and get out of the 4th Reich while you can.

Any passionate voter whose choice doesn't prevail would be disappointed and think the majority voted for the " wrong party".

The Big Lie ?

Didn't Hillary believe Russian interference cost her the unlosable election and many of her supporters concur.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Didn't Hillary believe Russian interference cost her the unlosable election and many of her supporters concur.

You mean the whole 'Russia, if you are listening...' saga?

 

[mancity1]

Here's a thought... stop watching Fox "News" for 6 months or so. Watch, instead, PBS. PBS Newshour is very factual - but probably has a bias towards the Left, albeit unintentional (Newshour aims for neutrality and factual reporting, but everyone employed by Newshour is likely Democratic and thus bias creeps in - for example, in what stories are covered).

The Right in the USA is seeking to end Democracy. This is clear to me as a centrist. And this viewpoint has been echoed by prominent voices far to the right of me.

You are oblivious to this - because you watch Fox "News" and other outlets to exclusion.

Wake up dude.

Those outlets are clearly anti-science; not by design per se - but because that's what their viewership wants to believe. Fox is the Demagogue Channel. Continue watching Fox if you're a sheeple in need of an echo chamber.

There is news reporting and ones own views namely opinions and many channels have shifted from reporting to opinion because their employers allow them to do so and their research shows that it can attract more viewers and hence advertisers when an ever increasing number of individuals are gaining their " news " from social media or the net.

When I was a teenager much of the news was reporting with little opinion from the hosts and the reporters.

if someone thinks your viewed is flawed that is their opinion but it doesn't necessarily mean they are anti science or base their view on evidence or a lack of it as the case may be to support that view.

I don't understand your second last sentence it seems you confuse science ( experimentation and observation thereof to collect knowledge of same ) with opinion and ones beliefs.

Some people are god fearing , some people are god loving and some have no god to make sense of the world they live in when they feel the need to but can all three be " right " or all three be " wrong "

 

[mancity1]

You mean the whole 'Russia, if you are listening...' saga?

Those "deplorable" Russians boom boom.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

You mean the Party is not a Trump cult like you told us it was? Shocking!!!

I’ve been right for six years and it may be finally changing. Maybe. In Georgia. Which went for Biden.

You’ve been wrong for six years. You have a lot of ground to make up, sweet pea.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Why is he utter scum?

Does he smell little girls hair? Get unnecessary close to women in photos. Make inappropriate comments about children? What exactly is it that warrants this 'scum' appellation.

Wait, perhaps he gives eulogies at the funerals of KKK members? Or perhaps he reminisces about the good old days jocking and jiving with avowed Racists. Oh wait... That's all Biden... Funny I've never seen a post of yours calling him scum.

SO whatever it is that Desantis is doing, certainly is worse than any of the above right?????

Why do you think he’s not scum?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

What's delusional is conflating conservative with racist and Alt-Right. It's also despicable by the way.

Awwwwwww . . . man gets in bed with assholes, claims to be shocked at foul smell, film at 11.

You’re losing it, mate.

 

[SWP's back]

Success and media coverage breeds support. I think De Santis will do whatever is required to gain and to remain in power.

I think that De Stanis is potentially worse than Trump because De Santis will act thoughtfully and with deliberation with every act he takes - whereas Trump acts with gut instinct.

Whereas Trump can escape from political death (pussy grabbing) - any misstep he makes is quickly forgotten. I'm not sure that De Santis has this ability at all. So in that sense, perhaps Trump is worse - but not at all uniquely bad.

But De santis is at least sane. He’s unlikely to pull the US out of NATO or suggesting firing missiles at cartels in Mexico from US soil or moving USA’s foreign policy to coincide with Putin’s.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Why is he utter scum?

Does he smell little girls hair? Get unnecessary close to women in photos. Make inappropriate comments about children? What exactly is it that warrants this 'scum' appellation.

Wait, perhaps he gives eulogies at the funerals of KKK members? Or perhaps he reminisces about the good old days jocking and jiving with avowed Racists. Oh wait... That's all Biden... Funny I've never seen a post of yours calling him scum.

SO whatever it is that Desantis is doing, certainly is worse than any of the above right?????

Good lord.

Are you wearing Nike Decades and sleeping under a purple blanket?

 

[andyhinch]

Awwwwwww . . . man gets in bed with assholes, claims to be shocked at foul smell, film at 11.

You’re losing it, mate.

Losing it ??????? ;-)

 

[Dax777]

I’ve been right for six years and it may be finally changing. Maybe. In Georgia. Which went for Biden.

You’ve been wrong for six years. You have a lot of ground to make up, sweet pea.

Aight then :)

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

There is news reporting and ones own views namely opinions and many channels have shifted from reporting to opinion because their employers allow them to do so and their research shows that it can attract more viewers and hence advertisers when an ever increasing number of individuals are gaining their " news " from social media or the net.

When I was a teenager much of the news was reporting with little opinion from the hosts and the reporters.

if someone thinks your viewed is flawed that is their opinion but it doesn't necessarily mean they are anti science or base their view on evidence or a lack of it as the case may be to support that view.

I don't understand your second last sentence it seems you confuse science ( experimentation and observation thereof to collect knowledge of same ) with opinion and ones beliefs.

Some people are god fearing , some people are god loving and some have no god to make sense of the world they live in when they feel the need to but can all three be " right " or all three be " wrong "

News should simply be reporting of facts without bias. Let the viewer decide.

As you recognize, "news" on the Right is no longer news - instead it's opinion in the guise of news; feeding viewership opinions in alignment with their biases.

As for your confusion about my 2nd to last sentence - namely, that "Fox is the Demagogue Channel" - beats me why you feel this way. You've already admitted that Fox is in the business of making money, voicing opinions that align with their viewership. Fox is quintessentially demagogic.

Too, you seem all to willing to drag God into the picture. What on earth does God have to do with news?

Finally, it puzzles me why you think that Fox isn't anti-science. On issue after issue, science and fact don't matter to Fox - rather it's what their viewership wants to hear that drives the narrative. Climate change, COVID, vaccine efficacy and safety, wearing of masks, and on and on and on - facts be damned - let's bring on opinion in the guise of news to attract and maintain viewership.

Fox is a feel-good channel for the far Right - it's not news. And it's often far from factual.

Take for example, Tucker Carlson's misguided attempt to defend Putin. In one of his broadcasts, he's there defending the invasion of Ukraine because - get this! - America very well might have numerous biological weapon laboratories secreted throughout Ukraine! This was such an ingenious conspiracy theory that Russian state media picked up on the story and quickly broadcast Tucker in defense of their indefensible invasion. And for whatever reason you seem all too willing to defend Fox.

I put it to you once more - Fox is the Demagogue channel - and has virtually nothing at all to do with common sense, logic, fact, science or responsible journalism.