How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Rascal said:
Its been implemented by people who are clueless, and/or people who are rampant free market idealogues who took advantage of peoples ignorance to push their agenda, check out the Baker Street Herald for some of the underhand dealings, you will be gobsmacked.. On that level it is wrong on every level, because of the people behind it.

Yet I still think given the options I described in my previous post it was the correct decision, the result however is we have jumped out of one neo liberal frying pan into an ultra neo liberal frying pan.

If anything it was a failure of the left to have a cohesive vision of a post Brexit UK. That saddens me.
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sorry mate just not buying it - when it all went to shit ( as it has ) it was predicted that the line pushed will be that the idea was right the implementation was wrong and thats where you are at.

The idea that we could Leave the "shackles " of the EU political system and "free" ourselves to do as we please was just pie in the sky. Its straight out of the German car makers/they need us playbook. We were one of twenty eight the idea that somehow we could impose our will and our ideals and get the EU to change course to suit us is exceptionalist in the extreme. Any hope that we had of influencing change was from within using diplomacy but we spent 30 years negotiating our opt outs but retaining all the benefits but people allowed themselves to believe the biggest pile of horseshit outside of your local riding stables - it tapped into to the latent hatred that some had and showed up the lack of education and the lack of political engagement amongst the working classes in this country.

I was always against the idea of Leaving - I could see what the obvious results would be - I regularly posted that on here and was roundly attacked by a number of now absent posters who haven't had the bollocks to try to defend their point of view. I am angry about how the withdrawal of FoM has and will affect my childrens opportunities and futures - the impact on our economy will last for decades - on current form we are heading back to the 70's and I am sure I will be dead before there is any meaningful recovery in the country's fortunes.
 
Rascal said:
I have stated previously that the binary nature of the vote left out my preferred option and whilst Brexit now looks a bad choice, I actually have something in common with that Tory clown Rees Mogg, in that we may not see the benefits for years.... The passing of time may however pave the way for a Socialist government able to do as it pleases without the constraints of the EU. I may not see it, but our young ones might,
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How can you have a referendum on greater integration with the EU when that wasn't even on the agenda within the remaining 27 countries? That is in deadlock whilst currency transfer to the poorer countries in the euro zone remains off the table.

The last paragraph sounds like the socialist version of David Frost's and Rees-Mogg's 50 year plan.
 
Rascal said:
I have stated previously that the binary nature of the vote left out my preferred option and whilst Brexit now looks a bad choice, I actually have something in common with that Tory clown Rees Mogg, in that we may not see the benefits for years.... The passing of time may however pave the way for a Socialist government able to do as it pleases without the constraints of the EU. I may not see it, but our young ones might,
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There was never any prospect of a government led by Cameron offering a socialist Lexit option and it’s delusional to think it was ever an option.
 
Rascal said:
The left has always had a strong anti EU faction, the likes of Benn and Shore, Foot and even stood on a pro leave manifesto pledge in 1982. They saw the way the EU was heading and the EU is no friend of Socialism. Its a pro capitalist entity and as an anti capitalist I could not support it despite being in bed with the strangest of bedfellows. I despise Farage and his ilk with a passion/

The reason though it has been a disaster is because of the people implementing it, not because Brexit was inherently a bad choice,
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Ok mate. Tell me how it should have been implemented to benefit the country.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
How can you have a referendum on greater integration with the EU when that wasn't even on the agenda within the remaining 27 countries? That is in deadlock whilst currency transfer to the poorer countries in the euro zone remains off the table.

The last paragraph sounds like the socialist version of David Frost's and Rees-Mogg's 50 year plan.
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Because "they need us more than we need them" - thats the point that was never grasped - remember Davis boasting his first job post referendum was to go to Berlin and discuss the future with Merkel - none of them wanted to grasp the situation that the score was 27 - 1 and the 27 as a unit decided we had made our bed and now we needed to lie in it
 
Didn't think there would be many posts praising Brexit but...

Didn't we get the Covid vaccines three months earlier because we didn't have to wait for multiple nations to approve them?
Seem to remember the democratic and lawful EU rip up international laws and try and steal/ban/interfere with the UK's private orders of the stuff. Still want to be a part of that mob?
They have then spent most of their time finding ways to nobble the UK as some kind of punishment for daring to leave.

I thought it a bad idea to leave at the time. The behaviour of the EU since has actually turned me the opposite way.
They seem to be very worried we might do well in the long term....why is this?

As for my day to day life, not much has changed. My business has grown and i'm earning more than ever.
Covid has made judging the real effects of leaving harder. Now Putin has further muddied the waters as such.
I agree some things have changed. They obviously would.
The truth is there is nothing stopping us rejoining the EU if that is what the majority want.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you think, and if it's been a disaster or not.
It's happened, get over it.
If it has affected your business then adapt. Plenty of things have affected my business over the years. Not once have i moaned about it. I have evolved and changed with the times.

People moaning that they find travel harder, then hard shit. I mainly holiday in the States. That involves filling in Esta's. What's the big deal if that happens to travel to the EU?

I'm not into politics. But the one thing i learned during the Pandemic was the Government couldn't do anything to please some people.
We had the forum "experts" on here daily telling us how much the Government was fucking up.
Yet half were saying the Government wasn't locking hard down enough, while others were saying the complete opposite.
Some predicted a disaster when all restrictions were lifted.
"How could the Government be so stupid"
"We will be back to hospitals over flowing again"
Yet these people slid away when nothing happened and peoples lives/businesses started up again.

So forgive me if i ignore most of you "Experts" on politics/brexit.
You know fuck all in reality, otherwise you would be doing it as a job!
 
This is a nice thread. Can I just ask….
How did Manchester United get the nickname “The Rags”??
 
Some stupid cunts actually thought it would be as straightforward as leaving a golf club and cancelling your membership direct debit.

Extricating ourselves from a hugely complex international agreement which had evolved over half a century was always going to be insanely challenging and replete with danger. How could it not be? Was ridiculous to suggest otherwise, although plenty did.

What we see now is exactly what people voted for. Chaos, uncertainty and inevitable decline.

Well done guys. Well done.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Some stupid cunts actually thought it would be as straightforward as leaving a golf club and cancelling your membership direct debit.

Extricating ourselves from a hugely complex international agreement which had evolved over half a century was always going to be insanely challenging and replete with danger. How could it not be? Was ridiculous to suggest otherwise, although plenty did.

What we see now is exactly what people voted for. Chaos, uncertainty and inevitable decline.

Well done guys. Well done.
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Oven ready mate :-)
 
I've given up getting angry with our decision to leave, but I'll never forgive the lies told by their campaigners that put their own interests before the best interests of our country.

It was always going to end with us being isolated and poorer, security in Northern Ireland being compromised, and £15B added to the costs of our exporters.

'Bring back control' is going to hit the xenophobes that don't want 'them bloody forriners ,ere' and the rest of us that could'nt care less in more ways than one as this government destroys our employment, consumer and food standards in their 'bonfire' of removing the legislation we helped create as a valued and major member of the EU.

I find it hard to rationalise a decision to leave a bloc that gave us all so much protection from the worst excesses of an extreme right wing government was backed by those that will suffer the most from their deciision to put their cross in the 'leave' box.

Shooting yourself in the foot is never a good idea, and it's worth bearing in mind that brexit still hasn't really happened. Import controls haven't started yet, and for a very good reason. The lying twats that wanted us to leave know full well the negative impact that will have on our daily lives. They are shit scared of that reality so they haven't bothered implementing it.

The grace period, extended time after time, can't go on forever. It's madness that our exporters have increased costs, but exporters from the EU don't have those charges imposed on their goods.

We are fucked, and it was supported by a cheering mob that believed a message on a bus that stated we would have £350M a week to spend on the NHS but is actually being funded by an increase in National Insurance contributions, and the promised 40 new hospitals are nowehere to be seen.

Even the 'oven ready deal' is still raw and stuck in the fridge as our glorious leader wants to renege on it.
 
fulabeer said:
Didn't we get the Covid vaccines three months earlier because we didn't have to wait for multiple nations to approve them?
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Nope, this was a lie the conservatives spread around that was immediately debunked.
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Until the Brexit transition period ends on 31 December, vaccines in the UK are supposed to be authorised via the European Medicines Agency (EMA). However, since 2012, the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has been free, under regulation 174, to give temporary approval to an unlicensed medicinal product in the case of certain types of public health threat, such as a pandemic.

When the MHRA approved the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine for use in the UK on 2 December, the government press release accompanying this announcement made clear that approval was given under regulation 174.

The government has previously said that “if a suitable Covid-19 vaccine candidate, with strong supporting evidence of safety, quality and effectiveness from clinical trials becomes available before the end of the transition period, EU legislation which we have implemented via regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations allows the MHRA to temporarily authorise the supply of a medicine or vaccine, based on public health need.”

This is clear that using regulation 174 is implementing EU legislation.

In summary - we had the power to get around EU approval legislation in an emergency and act independently for 8 years before the pandemic and the government even referenced this EU law giving the UK the right to act independently in their press release about approving the vaccine.
 
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“Everyone’s a winner, baby, that’s the truth (yes the truth)”
Was this Boris Johnson or Errol Brown?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Some stupid cunts actually thought it would be as straightforward as leaving a golf club and cancelling your membership direct debit.

Extricating ourselves from a hugely complex international agreement which had evolved over half a century was always going to be insanely challenging and replete with danger. How could it not be? Was ridiculous to suggest otherwise, although plenty did.

What we see now is exactly what people voted for. Chaos, uncertainty and inevitable decline.

Well done guys. Well done.
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The arguments I got in trying to tell the fuckwits that country`s would have us over a barrel when making trade agreement and that trade agreements can take years. They are not sorted out one afternoon over beer and sandwiches.
The most desperate of the parties involved usual get the shaft to some extent.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
How can you have a referendum on greater integration with the EU when that wasn't even on the agenda within the remaining 27 countries? That is in deadlock whilst currency transfer to the poorer countries in the euro zone remains off the table.

The last paragraph sounds like the socialist version of David Frost's and Rees-Mogg's 50 year plan.
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You couldn't obviously, that is what led me into the direction I took, as I thought the EU as it stood was untenable.
 
west didsblue said:
There was never any prospect of a government led by Cameron offering a socialist Lexit option and it’s delusional to think it was ever an option.
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There was however a chance for Labour to embrace Brexit and win the election that resulted in s having the clown in charge,
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Some stupid cunts actually thought it would be as straightforward as leaving a golf club and cancelling your membership direct debit.

Extricating ourselves from a hugely complex international agreement which had evolved over half a century was always going to be insanely challenging and replete with danger. How could it not be? Was ridiculous to suggest otherwise, although plenty did.

What we see now is exactly what people voted for. Chaos, uncertainty and inevitable decline.

Well done guys. Well done.
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I actually remember listening to someone during the campaign itself who said that being in the European Union was like living with a bullet lodged in your brain, yeh its not ideal obviously, but trying to take it out will probably kill you.
I've thought of that analogy many times over the past few years.
 
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