How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I actually remember listening to someone during the campaign itself who said that being in the European Union was like living with a bullet lodged in your brain, yeh its not ideal obviously, but trying to take it out will probably kill you.
I've thought of that analogy many times over the past few years.

That’s a fucking brilliant analogy!

 

[RiversideBlue]

I'm on the fence and still think it's to early to tell long term. It's difficult to make big generalisations. Yes, we're in a far shittier place then we were before Brexit but a lot of that is due to the pandemic and war in Russia. Every other country is too. At least, we were able to support Ukraine without needing the EUs agreement first. Time will tell. I agree that Boris needs to go but am not sure Labour have any policies at all on anything, other than slagging of the Tories. Wouldn't it be great if someone created a decent third political party that was straight down the middle, had clear policies and started talking like grown ups rather than kids in the playground.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It's great to finally get a thread on here to debate brexit. I think it's been fantastic, and literally every day I wake up to new brexit benefits. It's just sad that the gloss has been taken off brexit by the disastrous effects of the pandemic and global recession. It's a bit early to say 'I told you so', but it's looking like remainers will be dining on humble pie for many years.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It's great to finally get a thread on here to debate brexit. I think it's been fantastic, and literally every day I wake up to new brexit benefits. It's just sad that the gloss has been taken off brexit by the disastrous effects of the pandemic and global recession. It's a bit early to say 'I told you so', but it's looking like remainers will be dining on humble pie for many years.

Your new job at GB News?

 

[SilverFox2]

Given it was clear from the Vote Leave campaign who would be actually be implementing it, then surely Brexit was indeed an inherently bad choice?

Do you think that current politicians irrespective of parties are capable of law making?

Ever since we joined EU the mix of MPs has changed from law making to criticizing EU laws. I think law making is a long lost art in HOC so MPs are equally incompetant.

 

[stonerblue]

Well at least the hospitals are now minted....

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Well at least the hospitals are now minted....

Interesting that we are still waiting on the policy for hospital and social care. One normally assumes that before raising taxes for something then there’s a policy to state exactly how it is to be used.

 

[bugsyblue]

As a person who thought at the time Brexit was the correct decision of the people, albeit many who did vote for Brexit in my opinion voted for the wrong reasons I still do not believe Brexit is wrong, its the people who have delivered it are wrong. They allowed themselves to be dictated too by the little Englander's, gammon's, racists and ultra neo liberals.

It could and should have been so very different.

The nature of the Brexit referendum though left us with a binary choice when there should have been a third choice, greater integration into the EU

Do not get me wrong here, I am on record as being Pro EU, my issue was that the EU did not go far enough and should have planned to develop into a federalised United States of Europe, a Federalised state that had EU armed forces, an EU wide social security system and healthcare system. An elected President and executive, with a Parliament will real power. As a Federal state it could have given autonomy to regions such as Catalonia and Scotland, it could have given more powers to local people.

It would also have given us the chance of a Socialist EU, already many EU countries are electing left wing Governments as the fight back against neo liberalism gathers pace. The EU as it stood was a neo liberal construct and that is why I was content with Brexit.

If only Labour had not allowed Starmer to push that ridiculous policy at the last election and Corbyn had been allowed to be true to his beliefs things could have been very different. Instead we got this clueless bunch offering oven ready deals and other such nonsense,

I don’t quite follow, how can voting to leave to the EU lead to us having greater integration into the EU?

 

[bugsyblue]

The left has always had a strong anti EU faction, the likes of Benn and Shore, Foot and even stood on a pro leave manifesto pledge in 1982. They saw the way the EU was heading and the EU is no friend of Socialism. Its a pro capitalist entity and as an anti capitalist I could not support it despite being in bed with the strangest of bedfellows. I despise Farage and his ilk with a passion/

The reason though it has been a disaster is because of the people implementing it, not because Brexit was inherently a bad choice,

I hear what you are saying but the EU is still less right than this Tory government? There are still certain rules the EU have implemented that I would consider socialist or perhaps a better phrase is laws and right that have a social conscience. Point being I don’t understand why anyone who was left would vote to leave the EU. We all knew what would happen to Britain post Brexit. It was only ever going to swing further right.

 

[stonerblue]

Interesting that we are still waiting on the policy for hospital and social care. One normally assumes that before raising taxes for something then there’s a policy to state exactly how it is to be used.

No need to raise taxes remember. Our EU sub's were going straight to the nhs..

 

[unexpected item]

They weaponised the hard of thinking. At the same time rubbishing anyone who was anti with name-calling - eg Remoaners. Divide and rule. They learn it at Eton.

The simple messaging was enough to tip the balance which gave Leave a small majority.

Same with the last election but had a greater effect (80 seat majority) - Get Brexit Done was the slogan and I know a lot of people who thought "Yeah, that'll work for me, I'm sick about hearing about it" and voted for Johnson, rather than the Tories as a party.

 

[jitsubluedan]

They weaponised the hard of thinking. At the same time rubbishing anyone who was anti with name-calling - eg Remoaners. Divide and rule. They learn it at Eton.

The simple messaging was enough to tip the balance which gave Leave a small majority.

Same with the last election but had a greater effect (80 seat majority) - Get Brexit Done was the slogan and I know a lot of people who thought "Yeah, that'll work for me, I'm sick about hearing about it" and voted for Johnson, rather than the Tories as a party.

^^^ this all day long. Especially the reference to Eton.

 

[bluethrunthru]

am not sure Labour have any policies at all on anything, other than slagging of the Tories.

Oh dear you have fallen for it - Labour point out him lying in QT - "Nothing happening here move on " - Labour go on drinking and ignoring their own rules - " Just picking on the Tories "
Labour last year warn of upcoming inflation problems - "Johnson " nothing to worry about move on " - Labour we need a windfall tax to help with huge utility bills - " Its a really bad idea and typical of Labour who just want to raise taxes although we are imposing the highest tax burden ever and are raising taxes 17 times but we don't want to stifle investment "
Next day - " we are imposing a windfall tax because its the right thing to do. "

Labour do have policies - most get used by the Tories

 

[roypaulknewmyfather]

It's great to finally get a thread on here to debate brexit. I think it's been fantastic, and literally every day I wake up to new brexit benefits. It's just sad that the gloss has been taken off brexit by the disastrous effects of the pandemic and global recession. It's a bit early to say 'I told you so', but it's looking like remainers will be dining on humble pie for many years.

Oh goody! I've been waiting for someone who knows what the benefits are. I'm not asking you to tell me precisely, just point me in the right direction and maybe I'll get enough benefit from whatever it is to prevent me ripping up the floorboards to burn next winter.

 

[NorthamptonBlue]

Oh dear you have fallen for it - Labour point out him lying in QT - "Nothing happening here move on " - Labour go on drinking and ignoring their own rules - " Just picking on the Tories "
Labour last year warn of upcoming inflation problems - "Johnson " nothing to worry about move on " - Labour we need a windfall tax to help with huge utility bills - " Its a really bad idea and typical of Labour who just want to raise taxes although we are imposing the highest tax burden ever and are raising taxes 17 times but we don't want to stifle investment "
Next day - " we are imposing a windfall tax because its the right thing to do. "

Labour do have policies - most get used by the Tories

The windfall tax is nothing of the sort. Rishi had told the oil majors that they can get a 91% rebate if they spend money in the UK. It was a green light to drill more wells in the North Sea in addition to renewables. Shell got the go ahead last week for a project which has been delayed for some considerable time.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Oh goody! I've been waiting for someone who knows what the benefits are. I'm not asking you to tell me precisely, just point me in the right direction and maybe I'll get enough benefit from whatever it is to prevent me ripping up the floorboards to burn next winter.

Pleased to help. - you're welcome. Have you checked they are actual floorboards and not just big sheets of chipboard? Chipboard still burns well, but you'll have to move more furniture about (or burn it) to get at it.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Pleased to help. - you're welcome. Have you checked they are actual floorboards and not just big sheets of chipboard? Chipboard still burns well, but you'll have to move more furniture about (or burn it) to get at it.

I don’t think there’s any worries there, the furniture went over the New Year.

 

[Maccblue]

Got a mate who wants to live in Spain over half the year. Who now moans like fuck he can’t. And he voted out !!
I rest my case

 

[JASR]

Got a mate who wants to live in Spain over half the year. Who now moans like fuck he can’t. And he voted out !!
I rest my case

Indeed. That’s what’s known as a 1st world problem - earnt a lot, can spend a lot, houses in different countries (uk and eu), then votes for the ending of what he worked hard to achieve - ability to live anywhere in Europe.

Now reduced to max of 90 days in EU, and then has to remain/leave (tish boom) outside for the next 90 days.

how to kill your hard earned wanted lifestyle in one stupid Ill informed way.

it’s not affecting tourists (generally -except see the ‘Manchester airport’ thread), but if you were lucky enough to have that lifestyle… you’ve really been a turkey voting for Christmas.

 

[Corky]

I hear what you are saying but the EU is still less right than this Tory government? There are still certain rules the EU have implemented that I would consider socialist or perhaps a better phrase is laws and right that have a social conscience. Point being I don’t understand why anyone who was left would vote to leave the EU. We all knew what would happen to Britain post Brexit. It was only ever going to swing further right.

All the economics lecturers were all centre or left of centre and all big supporters of the EC or EEC.

The EU did a lot for workers rights, however it is the socialists who don't work for a living are the ones who didn't like it.