Keir Starmer

Gaudion M said:
This will be interesting - I see it as that they need to test the water on what line to put out ahead of any election. As a hardcore remainer I know there will be a lot of push back as it will be far short of any serious effort to get us back into the EU, not even back in to the SM/CU.

It will be interesting to see what noises the tories make - this speech will in part speak to the disaffected tory/leave voter who is maybe seeing the light and thinking its not all it cracked up to be. The reality for Labour / Lib Dem is they have the remain voters in any event. Its the wavering leavers they need to speak to and they need to slowly bring them back round to understanding that a policy based on two fingers up to the EU only makes our lives harder.
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I can't see any way he can offer rejoining imminently, as it's still in the process of unwinding still.
I expect him to frame any comment on the subject as 'not yet, not ruling it out though', but it's mostly a matter of anyone wanting to rejoin needing to accept that it's not been 2 years yet and is too soon.
 
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Gabriel said:
That might wash in London and England but Scottish Labour will be inwardly groaning. The SNP will make hay from the statement and point out that Starmer is just chasing English votes and keeping Brexit in a hard form. The Opposition parties really are in a fascinating state.
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Thats the alliance torched should he need it to take power.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I can't see any way he can offer rejoining imminently, as it's still in the process of unwinding still.
I expect him to frame any comment on the subject as 'not yet, not ruling it out though', but it's mostly a matter of anyone wanting to rejoin needing to accept that it's not been 2 years yet and is too soon.
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You'd need at least a generation to pass to try again.

By then the politics maybe very different.

Personally, i think he should say its done and we have to turn it into a positive that benefits all and not just a few rich tory donors.
 
Gaudion M said:
I dont see abstension when you look at how awful the tories are. There is a massive desire to kick the tories in the balls. That likely over-rides the EU issue for most voters, people just want the tories out.

As for the SNP - the issue above also drives voters to the SNP. I dont see them losing any support. Hopefully Labour and Lib Dem will have enough without them.
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Hard to say at the moment, as none of us can be sure how by-election votes will translate into general election votes, so while people will enjoy putting the boot into the Conservatives at the moment, they might not be quite so willing in two year’s time. I agree that the SNP‘s position will be only strengthened, but it would take a monumental shift to the Liberal Democrats in the shires for there to be enough Labour and Liberal Democrat seats to form a government.
 
mat said:
Thats the alliance torched should he need it to take power.
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Not necessarily. It might take a tremendous amount of horse trading and a fundamental change in the Union, but it could be the price the Liberal Democrats/Labour are prepared to pay to hold power and effect change.
 
mat said:
You'd need at least a generation to pass to try again.

By then the politics maybe very different.

Personally, i think he should say its done and we have to turn it into a positive that benefits all and not just a few rich tory donors.
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sounds about right - 4-5 years from vote to leaving, at least 10 years to settle, so it'll be over 15 years from the referendum.
I think the last bit will be much what he does, as there isn't any other sane approach. Can't give the Conservatives a target to misrepresent.
 
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MillionMilesAway said:
sounds about right - 4-5 years from vote to leaving, at least 10 years to settle, so it'll be over 15 years from the referendum.
I think the last bit will be much what he does, as there isn't any other sane approach. Can't give the Conservatives a target to misrepresent.
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Suggesting to go back into the SM/CU could be a quick win to reduce some to the cost of living strain though.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Suggesting to go back into the SM/CU could be a quick win to reduce some to the cost of living strain though.
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Possibly, something for closer to the election though, as it may have receded in importance a little by then.
The Conservatives have no compunction in claiming Labour voted against all sorts of things and would happily claim they want to rejoin without context.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Suggesting to go back into the SM/CU could be a quick win to reduce some to the cost of living strain though.
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Not going to happen. He’s chasing Brexiteers.

It all sounds as if it could have been written by Theresa May, on a bad day. Cartoonists should portray him in her characteristic leopard-skin shoes.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Disappointing really. There are signs that people are waking up to Brexit being shit.
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Not disappointed because I wasn't expecting anything else.

Labour are just claiming to offer 'a better version' of the 'better version' of what the Conservatives are offering. There is precious little fundamental change and certainly not enough to alleviate the chronic pain the majority of people are feeling. Labour are simply trying to be as inoffensive as possible and appear the safer option, but whether that will be radical enough to win in '25, I don't know. Maybe there will be no appetite for significant change amongst the English electorate by then and that will satisfy them.
 
Sir Keir sitting on the fence. Who fucking knew...

Is he leading the party or taking instruction from B.Liar and Mandy?

Maybe he's resigning this week so he's not arsed.
 
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Gabriel said:
Not disappointed because I wasn't expecting anything else.

Labour are just claiming to offer 'a better version' of the 'better version' of what the Conservatives are offering. There is precious little fundamental change and certainly not enough to alleviate the chronic pain the majority of people are feeling.
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That's it in a nutshell. They seem to believe that serious reform isn't required just better management. This position on brexit is just a continuation of that.

Vote Labour for marginally less shit in your rivers.
Gabriel said:
Labour are simply trying to be as inoffensive as possible and appear the safer option, but whether that will be radical enough to win in '25, I don't know. Maybe there will be no appetite for significant change amongst the English electorate by then and that will satisfy them.
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Never been convinced that this timid strategy would be enough. With what people are facing right now and what's to come I'm now almost certain it isn't.
 
Postman Pep said:
That's it in a nutshell. They seem to believe that serious reform isn't required just better management. This position on brexit is just a continuation of that.

Vote Labour for marginally less shit in your rivers.

Never been convinced that this timid strategy would be enough. With what people are facing right now and what's to come I'm now almost certain it isn't.
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They cannot be 'radical' for fear of being labeled the second-coming of Corbyn so they have to position themselves as a sensible and moral (cue Durham Constabulary) alternative. I understand that.

However, there will be some who think that the better management guise is just covering the serious reform and that things will be different once they are leading a coalition. I'm less convinced. My greatest fear is voter apathy.
 
mat said:
Maybe he's resigning this week so he's not arsed.
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You wish. This move is aimed at voters that voted for brexit and for BJ but maybe are seeing the light. Its going to piss of the labour base but its a calculated move. Its how you win elections.
 
Gaudion M said:
You wish. This move is aimed at voters that voted for brexit and for BJ but maybe are seeing the light. Its going to piss of the labour base but its a calculated move. Its how you win elections.
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Precisely. If (when) the economy continues to suffer from the effects of Brexit and the more stubborn people start to realise, that is probably the time to be a bit more radical. At the moment it's a balance between not scaring off any of the pro or anti Brexit factions. He is also trying to neuter the Tory press by actively distancing himself from Corbyn and the Labour left. The calculation will be that it's better to have a broad church of mildly disappointed unenthusiastic people than a narrow church of people who think he's great because the former will secure Labour more votes than the latter.
 
Gaudion M said:
You wish. This move is aimed at voters that voted for brexit and for BJ but maybe are seeing the light. Its going to piss of the labour base but its a calculated move. Its how you win elections.
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At the moment I want stability and proper leadership.

If he resigns I wouldn't put it past Johnson to go to the polls and I get 5 more years of the bastards in at the moment.
 
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