It's Quiet 17 - Glory Thread

[kun]

yeah that *checks stats*, 1 goal and 2 assists.. he's a modern day offensive juggernaut.

 

[kun]

I hate headlines like this.

“The minimum amount Brighton would accept”

As if after this knowledge becomes known, someone would still pay over £50m.

Teams either name their price or say “not for sale”.

 

[Coatigan]

You are misunderstanding me mate. I don't advocate getting rid of him and I do rate him as a back up and a very useful one. By "long haul" I mean he isn't a long term first choice left back, I don't think that's in dispute.

I guess I misunderstood then. A fair bit of flippant dismissing of a lot of our players, so I maybe went there too soon in my response.

I think he stays whether or not Cucurella or another LB arrives, and will be in Pep's plans as a known and dependable quantity, in whatever capacity that is. And will have a big but not always appreciated contribution to our success, yet again.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

View attachment 49581

Hmm, there isn’t much in the crosses created, 37 plays 42. (using 15:35 game ratio)

We also had no one to cross the ball too.

Zinchenko averaged more forward passes per game too and far more passes completed in the opposition half.

Edit. If using minutes played, the ratio would be 2.96:1 and so Zinchenko is better than Cucrella in all those stats barring not picking out nobody with his crosses.

 

[Woody135]

Walker was doing it at the top for for 3/4 years and England when we paid that fee. Cuckoo it’s his first real season at this level. 35 million plus add on to 45 would be a good deal for all around but Bloom will hold out for more

They signed him for £16m. Demanding >£50m 1 year later is obscene but its well within their rights

But if thats their stance and always has been we wouldnt be at this stage. We’d have had rumours of moving on

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

off the top of my head

a. He creates more chances
b. he's faster
c. has better stamina, so runs up and down the pitch more often

A is wrong, based on last season’s stats.
B is true
C How are you deciding that?

 

[Cobwebcat]

View attachment 49581

If I understand correctly then that’s 1-1 as only the percentages make sense since Cuc played more games than Zin so of course he had more opportunities. To stand a chance of a direct comparison the first thing you need is to show each stat per 90 minutes played.

fbref is a serious site and would give you better indications. Squawka is just a bit of fun.

https://fbref.com/en/

 

[BlueDejong]

 

[Blue Smarties]

Walker was doing it at the top for for 3/4 years and England when we paid that fee. Cuckoo it’s his first real season at this level. 35 million plus add on to 45 would be a good deal for all around but Bloom will hold out for more

That Walker wouldn’t command the same fee in the current market. He’d be £65m+

 

[kun]

Hmm, there isn’t much in the crosses created, 37 plays 42. (using 15:35 game ratio)

We also had no one to cross the ball too.

Zinchenko averaged more forward passes per game too and far more passes completed in the opposition half.

Edit. If using minutes played, the ratio would be 2.96:1 and so Zinchenko is better than Cucrella in all those stats barring not picking out nobody with his crosses.

A is wrong, based on last season’s stats.
B is true
C How are you deciding that?

No it isn’t wrong. Maybe Zinchenko created 0.1 more chances per 90 but his minutes are tiny by comparison. Cucurella created more chances than Cancelo and makes more successful efforts crosses Robertson last season. Sustaining it over 35 games is far more impressive than Zinchenko’s stats.

Zinchenko is an excellent player though. A very good alp rounder. Zinchenko doesn’t have the range of chance creation. Cucurella is obviously an excellent crosser (Zinchenko is not) but additionally covers more ground than Zinchenko (cant say this for sure as I can’t find any stats on their distance covered, the eye test is what tells me this) and has a similarly good passing range.

Cucurella should be an upgrade both offensively and defensively than Zinchenko. Although it may take him a year to settle and catch up as Zinchenko is very well established in and suited to City’s system.

 

[kun]

If I understand correctly then that’s 1-1 as only the percentages make sense since Cuc played more games than Zin so of course he had more opportunities. To stand a chance of a direct comparison the first thing you need is to show each stat per 90 minutes played.

fbref is a serious site and would give you better indications. Squawka is just a bit of fun.

https://fbref.com/en/

Thanks for the reference site.

It’s a double edged sword. It’s far harder to create 1.3 chances per 90 for 35 games than 1.4 chances per 90 for 15 games.

 

[Kilman]

Reckon Barca might come for Silva after selling de jong?

 

[Cobwebcat]

Thanks for the reference site.

It’s a double edged sword. It’s far harder to create 1.3 chances per 90 for 35 games than 1.4 chances per 90 for 15 games.

No it’s not, it’s the same. It’s an average per 90 minutes.

 

[Gaz (FMwkdsoul)]

Reckon Barca might come for Silva after selling de jong?

No.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

No it isn’t wrong. Maybe Zinchenko created 0.1 more chances per 90 but his minutes are tiny by comparison. Cucurella created more chances than Cancelo and makes more successful efforts crosses Robertson last season. Sustaining it over 35 games is far more impressive than Zinchenko’s stats.

Zinchenko is an excellent player though. A very good alp rounder. Zinchenko doesn’t have the range of chance creation. Cucurella is obviously an excellent crosser (Zinchenko is not) but additionally covers more ground than Zinchenko (cant say this for sure as I can’t find any stats on their distance covered, the eye test is what tells me this) and has a similarly good passing range.

Cucurella should be an upgrade both offensively and defensively than Zinchenko. Although it may take him a year to settle and catch up as Zinchenko is very well established in and suited to City’s system.

It is wrong on chances created per minute.

Maybe you think Steffan is a better keeper than Ederson as he conceded fewer goals last season?

We can’t ascertain whether he has better stamina, it’s just a hunch at the moment.

Zinchenko is undoubtedly a far better progressive passer than Cucurella and 99% of other left backs.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Reckon Barca might come for Silva after selling de jong?

They have to sell him first. United and Barca can jabber all they want.

 

[AirbagsOptionalTheReturn]

Comments like this are why people should watch football instead of reading statistics they apparently don't even understand.

Beat me to it, our Dave is the barometer I always use, he never got the headlines goals and assists, but if there was a stat for the pass that made the assist he would have been streets ahead of anyone else. By watching a player you can see how good they are, a player may have freaky stats (good or bad) but they should not be used in isolation.

 

[WallyA]

If I understand correctly then that’s 1-1 as only the percentages make sense since Cuc played more games than Zin so of course he had more opportunities. To stand a chance of a direct comparison the first thing you need is to show each stat per 90 minutes played.

fbref is a serious site and would give you better indications. Squawka is just a bit of fun.

https://fbref.com/en/

Yes, at the very least can people stop being stupid when comparing players?

Stop using total minutes when one player played 3x the league minutes, do people not realize how misleading this is?

I've already mentioned this in the Zinchenko performance thread, he is an ABSOLUTE JUGGERNAUT in our attack as a leftback. Basically Trent level, but where Trent is more direct and it's translates directly into assists, Zinchenko plays left back as if he's David Silva and is very influential in the pre assist.

Everyone should go to fbref and look at GCA/90 for our club (I posted this in zinny thread) and you'll have way more appreciation and realization for what he does hopefully.

I still want Cucurella as he will play left back in a slightly more defensive manner and is slightly quicker, but he is a worse passer and less intelligent on the ball than Zinchenko (only because Zinny iq on the ball is super high)

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

It is wrong on chances created per minute.

Maybe you think Steffan is a better keeper than Ederson as he conceded fewer goals last season?

We can’t ascertain whether he has better stamina, it’s just a hunch at the moment.

Zinchenko is undoubtedly a far better progressive passer than Cucurella and 99% of other left backs.

Well - yes, of course he is.

He’s naturally a midfielder, so you’d expect him to be.

Problem is he’s not all that great at defending. He’s ok - but not good enough for a team of our aspirations.

I suspect we’re looking for a player with better balance - someone who’s very good at both - and we’re willing to sacrifice a bit of the attacking threat we get with Zin for a much more solid defender.

 

[samuelyeboah]

It is wrong on chances created per minute.

Maybe you think Steffan is a better keeper than Ederson as he conceded fewer goals last season?

We can’t ascertain whether he has better stamina, it’s just a hunch at the moment.

Zinchenko is undoubtedly a far better progressive passer than Cucurella and 99% of other left backs.

this line of argument actually goes against what you are saying. if Steffen had conceded fewer goals per 90 than ederson would that make him a better GK than ederson?