Away tickets and points?

[johnnytapia]

I'm on just over 19.5k, I'd add Goodison to the list sometimes and definitely Brentford

19.5 k would see you easily get Everton for the last ten seasons (with possible exception the 2014 game).

 

[RACHACE]

Would fans back a reciprocal agreement among the big 6 clubs to double away allocations? It would mean more City fans get to go to the big away games where tickets are in high demand.

It would also mean though, that we have to be fair and offer an extra 3k tickets to their fans at the Etihad.

It would improve the atmosphere tremendously and make those games an even bigger spectacle for TV audiences around the world.

I loved watching the Old Firm derbies when they did this. They aren't quite as special anymore with fewer away fans.

Definitely. That'd be quality. Doubt the police would think so though...

 

[RACHACE]

19.5 k would see you easily get Everton for the last ten seasons (with possible exception the 2014 game).

We didn't qualify for Everton last season and we've got just over 19.5k this season so call it 18.5k last season. It was a Saturday 5:30 if I remember correctly which have become really difficult to get tickets for in recent seasons. The 9 seasons before that though we'd probably qualified and had gone to the majority.

 

[Maccblue]

Would fans back a reciprocal agreement among the big 6 clubs to double away allocations? It would mean more City fans get to go to the big away games where tickets are in high demand.

It would also mean though, that we have to be fair and offer an extra 3k tickets to their fans at the Etihad.

It would improve the atmosphere tremendously and make those games an even bigger spectacle for TV audiences around the world.

I loved watching the Old Firm derbies when they did this. They aren't quite as special anymore with fewer away fans.

I would
Not sure about GMP or the three thousand home fans that would miss out tho !!!

 

[Gingers Dad]

19.5 k would see you easily get Everton for the last ten seasons (with possible exception the 2014 game).

I didn't qualify for Everton last year but I've been most years.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I'm not sure what the script was when points were brought in but I think every current season ticket holder started with 1k points?

But yes, there are flaws. I do not buy in to the people buying tickets to gain points and pass on myth that was given as the reason for collect in destination and removal of points for away games. If it happened, it was a small number and nothing in comparison with the bulk of tickets that don't go to Season ticket holders. It was a thin veil to make it look like they were doing something whilst the scam of those ticket websites went unchecked.

Also, giving 18-25s an allocation was great, as is junior pull through, but what is the point if they don't get points for them?

In general, I don't think the club are arsed. They make little or no money from flogging away tickets and probably have to swallow some costs in terms of postage. The less they have to post, the less cost to them so that's probably why we see a lot taken out of the main allocation.

To answer your questions, the club understandably aren't too forthcoming even to us about the work they do in monitoring ticket sales but I know they do have people dealing with these issues and it would be foolish to dismiss their figures of 25-30% of tickets changing hands prior to the change. It was clearly something they WERE concerned about so they do give a shit.

The only way people will catch up is if we ditch most of the hitoric points, and only go on more recent ones. So a 3 or 5 year rolling system. I think it just goes on the previous season at Liverpool. However there's the danger that the genuine hardcore support, who have been going to 90% or more of the games for many years, could be impacted so it's one the club and City Matters have to handle very carefully if we ever plan to implement this.

Each ticket they send out in the post costs money, whether that's to hospitality or OSC's, although I suspect the original benefit for introducing the OSC applications all those years ago was to save time and effort, when we had fewer branches and less restriction on the numbers of travelling fans.

 

[liamctid]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think, ultimately, the ticket point system is flawed generally as it mainly serves people who were at a match-going age at the right time in history. You started going in 2007 when fans had a 7(?) year head start. Imagine now when they have a 22-year head start - we don't even sell half-time raffles anymore so that method is out the window!

I've argued a lot over the years on here or other means regarding protecting the points system, mostly because this subject only seems to come up either at the start of the season, when we play United or Liverpool away or a big away cup game.

I really didn't want to lose points being given for away games in 2019. Reduce away points to 5 or increased home points based attendance maybe, but to completely lose it means that no one could go up the ladder and those at the top couldn't drop down. But it is what it is and we are where we are now.

To the quote above, I guess this is what sort of gets me now in a way.

Although it didn't feel like it at the time, I was incredibly fortunate to start going regularly to away games in 2006 when I was 18 as it was easy to get a ticket for games, within 2 years we'd gone from the most uninspiring team in the division to the richest club in the world and I was already on my way up the ladder. I played the game with the points system and by 2012 I was in a position where I'd get a ticket for every game, by 2015 I was in the first window for 90% of away games. Over those years I met my best mates and many, many other great people who follow City (I'm aware I always slag our fans off on here!) I've had the best times of my life following them.

With the way the current system is now, young adult City fans don't have the opportunity to have it as part of your life the way I did (which is probably for the best to be honest!) but I think for the long term culture of our support is a bad thing. Although having said that I see a lot of the same faces every week for those around 25-28.

I'm probably rambling here a bit - I don't think it's the closed shop people make out to get an away ticket but as a few people have alluded to I think the priority should be that the tickets go to genuine City fans, especially in the more in demand games.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Good question and I'm not saying you're right or wrong but one of the interesting things about being on City Matters is that you get to see both sides of the argument. One that fans never really see is that the club have commercial arrangements with a series of partners. That includes the likes of Puma and Etihad, but also travel companies. Whether we like it or not, they pay us money (a lot in the case of Puma & Etihad) and expect something back for that. That will generally include guaranteed tickets.

As an example, a few seasons ago at a home game I bumped into someone I knew from when I did some high-level work for Hays, who are one of our long-term sponsors. He was an opposition fan but in a home area. Hays get a number of tickets that they can give out to staff or customers. We have official arrangements with travel companies, who, again, pay us a fee and get tickets to sell as part of travel packages. We have no control over who they sell those tickets to although any opposition fans taking the piss in the wrong area can be ejected. I was down at Arsenal a few seasons ago and there were two Korean guys in Arsenal scarves queuing to get into our away area. They were politely shepherded to stewards for relocation. I've used contacts to get into the main stand at Everton in the past (we didn't take the piss but I'm sure the people around sussed us out).

What we do know is that, in general, out of 3,000 tickets, 150 will go to the club to distribute as they see fit, 150 will go to the 18-25 age group, 300 will go to the OSC, 600 will go to seasonal hospitality holders and 1,800 to general season card holders. The overwhelming majority of the people using those tickets will be City fans, although not ll will be general seasoncard holders. The one thing we have raised with the club that I didn't mention in my earlier post was that we've asked them to reduce the proportion going to seasonal hospitality members as it's disproportionate compared to their numbers.

This situation will never change, at least while we're successful. So there will be occasions where there are obvious tourists at away games. But let's not forget that in the not too distant past, we sent half our allocation back for some games as we didn't think we could sell it. Even on relatively modest points, I could usually get a ticket for our game at Anfield.

This system is fair in my opinion. The club has to cater to various interest groups as outlined above. Sadly, there's no silver bullet that would satisfy everyone as long as demand outstrip supply.
The only amendment I would like to see is 200 more going to the U25s and 200 less to the seasonal hospitality holders. Anyone who's been to an away game would love to see more younger folks who have the lungs to create an enviable atmosphere and support for the team.
Also, I would encourage folks to join an OSC close to where you live. It could increase your chances of getting an away ticket.

 

[Blu3m00n91]

Impossible for away tickets without using someone else’s card. ST ticket holder since 2011 and member since 2004, only got around 5,000 points.

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

Would fans back a reciprocal agreement among the big 6 clubs to double away allocations? It would mean more City fans get to go to the big away games where tickets are in high demand.

It would also mean though, that we have to be fair and offer an extra 3k tickets to their fans at the Etihad.

It would improve the atmosphere tremendously and make those games an even bigger spectacle for TV audiences around the world.

I loved watching the Old Firm derbies when they did this. They aren't quite as special anymore with fewer away fans.

Would we fill 6k to Arsenal, Spurs or Chelsea? I'm not so sure. Not sure they'd manage it coming the other way either.

 

[RACHACE]

This system is fair in my opinion. The club has to cater to various interest groups as outlined above. Sadly, there's no silver bullet that would satisfy everyone as long as demand outstrip supply.
The only amendment I would like to see is 200 more going to the U25s and 200 less to the seasonal hospitality holders. Anyone who's been to an away game would love to see more younger folks who have the lungs to create an enviable atmosphere and support for the team.
Also, I would encourage folks to join an OSC close to where you live. It could increase your chances of getting an away ticket.

Sitting on a coach drinking cans for 10 hours going to Palace away isn't everyone's idea of enjoyment.

However, going off your own back maybe stopping over and going for a pre and post match beer or two in one of the surrounding neighbourhoods might be. Why should 1 person who chooses to travel that way have less of a chance of getting a ticket compared to someone who's a member of their local OSC?

I'm playing devil's advocate a little here and in no way trying to arsey by the way.

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

While UEFA are waffling on and dragging out the draw, I've got time to respond. Some of what I'm going to say reflects the club's view and some (probably the majority) my own personal view.

As I said, it was the club's initiative to end points for buying away tickets and there's a theme here, which I'll touch on later. The club have been coy about how they monitor these things but they do, and they reckoned that 25-30% of the tickets for away games were being used by someone other than the person who bought them. A large part of that was due to the points system, which rewarded buying tickets rather than using them, and also generated a fear of falling behind from those high up on the ladder.

People complaining about having decent points totals and not being able to get tickets were being screwed by this system. There was no way anyone could legitimately catch up. We readily agreed to end the system of giving away points and to introduce a limited system of collecting tickets at the venue. We know from the process the club put in place for CL games (which was nothing to do with CM) that collection had a significant impact on the level at which tickets sold out. So there was clearly a lot of tickets being passed on. Unfortunately the club fucked it up, particularly v Celtic, but it worked. Digital tickets for away games may be the answer, as movement of these can be easily tracked. Just to be clear, there's always going to be circumstances where people need to get rid of tickets they can't use for various reasons - illness, work, family issues, etc. We've been emphasising to the club that the mechanism for doing this has to be as easy as handing your card over, but without the risk that you might not see the card again!

As for the distribution of available tickets, if I was implementing a new system, I certainly wouldn't use the one we currently have. However, I don't accept that tickets should only go to general admission season card holders, based on loyalty points. That just creates a closed shop.

The OSC allocation is a hangover from the days where (a) we weren't as good as we are now and (b) it was easier to distribute 50 tickets to a branch and get the money for those, in the days prior to the internet. I don't personally have a problem with the OSC allocation as it enables fans who might not have the points, including overseas fans, to get to occasional away games. People are talking about a limited allocation going into a ballot and the OSC allocation performs a similar function. If I was putting in place a new system, I'd probably keep an OSC allocation of some sort.

I know there's lot of criticism of the Hospitality allocation but these are usually for season card holders who may be just as loyal as other, general admission, season card holders. I know quite a few in hospitality who have been watching us regularly for many years. It's not just faceless corporates. In that new system I'd implement, I'd also look at extending any points system to Hospitality season card holders where possible. It's more problematic where seasonal hospitality customers are companies rather than individuals but not insoluble.

Another thing I'd do if I was introducing a new system is just allocate points on a rolling basis, rather than lifetime, say 5 years maximum. All the other top clubs, bar united, do this. We've talked the club about this and looked a little at the impact that would have on the top points holders. Personally, I'd achieve tis by taking out the earliest 4 or 5 years of points every year for the next 4 or 5 years, until we're down to only the last 5 years which we can then do on a proper rolling basis. That would help people catching up but I'd never want to disadvantage those fans who do go to all or 90% of games.

I think it's wrong to talk about points equalling 'loyalty'. Obviously they reflect attendance over the years to a large degree but my view is that why should someone who might have been a regular for 15 years, then maybe stopped going to most away games, be higher on the ladder than someone who has gone regularly more recently? Or why should someone who's paid £50 for Platinum be classed as more 'loyal' than someone who's been to the same games but not paid that extra? I stopped Platinum when my lad moved to the USA, as a protest against increasing prices and I was working away from home a lot, but I worked out I'd have around 22k points now if I'd carried it on. That wouldn't make me any more loyal though (although I'd have got to more games than I have on Gold).

What we have been talking to the club about is giving points for attendance, including at home games, rather than simply for buying a ticket, then not using it. That would make sure that the people who did turn up on a cold, wet Wednesday night for games against relegation fodder, or early round cup games against lower league opposition, were the ones rewarded. I know that would impact the people who can't make the midweek games because of distance but there should also be incentives for putting your ticket on the exchange, or passing it on to another person. That way, we should minimise the problem of tickets being sold but large numbers of empty seats.

And finally, to answer the points about obvious tourists at away games, you don't know where they've got their tickets from. It might be from the club allocation, an overseas OSC branch, or via a ticket that someone entitled to it has sold to them or a third-party resale site. If you do see people like that, either ask them or pass on their seat numbers to my successor so they can have it investigated. Or you could just accept that a few tickets will inevitably slip through the net.

How would a rolling system work those that are top now would still be top , deservedly,if you couldn't buy a ticket now how would you then ,as it it the points system is now set in stone no one going nowhere ,what's the point in points for home matches if the people that your trying to catch go to every game ?

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

To answer your questions, the club understandably aren't too forthcoming even to us about the work they do in monitoring ticket sales but I know they do have people dealing with these issues and it would be foolish to dismiss their figures of 25-30% of tickets changing hands prior to the change. It was clearly something they WERE concerned about so they do give a shit.

The only way people will catch up is if we ditch most of the hitoric points, and only go on more recent ones. So a 3 or 5 year rolling system. I think it just goes on the previous season at Liverpool. However there's the danger that the genuine hardcore support, who have been going to 90% or more of the games for many years, could be impacted so it's one the club and City Matters have to handle very carefully if we ever plan to implement this.

Each ticket they send out in the post costs money, whether that's to hospitality or OSC's, although I suspect the original benefit for introducing the OSC applications all those years ago was to save time and effort, when we had fewer branches and less restriction on the numbers of travelling fans.

I think we are at an interesting point generationally where giving "I was there when we were shit" first dibs might not actually always the fairest way of dealing tickets, as it was in the immediate takeover period. It's not a 28 year old's fault he or she have only had a great City their whole adult life.

 

[Stephen230]

Would fans back a reciprocal agreement among the big 6 clubs to double away allocations? It would mean more City fans get to go to the big away games where tickets are in high demand.

It would also mean though, that we have to be fair and offer an extra 3k tickets to their fans at the Etihad.

It would improve the atmosphere tremendously and make those games an even bigger spectacle for TV audiences around the world.

I loved watching the Old Firm derbies when they did this. They aren't quite as special anymore with fewer away fans.

Absolutely no chance. Arsenal for example have over 70,000 on their season ticket waiting list. I’d guess United, Liverpool and Tottenham have at least a similar amount. If it does ever change, it would be more likely to go the other way.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I'm always saying there's no solution to this issue but there is. When Pep goes we'll get Stuart Pearce back as manager and I can guarantee that no one will be moaning about away tickets after a couple of years.

 

[mancityvstoke]

I'm so far behind on points now I've no chance of most aways except Wembley.

I'm not arsed though tbh and think younger lot should get a chance as I had my day in the brilliant days of thousands of City walking up paying cash on the turnstiles at aways.

How I miss those days but boy am I glad I experienced all that and the old Kippax.

Distribution of tickets at limited seated allocations will never have solutions to make everyone happy.

Bring back standing terraces, doubling up and rope ladders.

 

[Blue Smarties]

I'm always saying there's no solution to this issue but there is. When Pep goes we'll get Stuart Pearce back as manager and I can guarantee that no one will be moaning about away tickets after a couple of years.

I’d be front row at every game to remind the **** there’s no love lost here.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I’d be front row at every game to remind the **** there’s no love lost here.

That makes two of us. I went to White Hart Lane for his final game just to say goodbye in an appropriate fashion!

 

[Pelegrinni]

Getting away tickets now is similar to getting a season ticket. A little over 10 years ago, you could phone the ticket office and get a season ticket same day. Not so anymore. And that's because City are massive now.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Getting away tickets now is similar to getting a season ticket. A little over 10 years ago, you could phone the ticket office and get a season ticket same day. Not so anymore. And that's because City are massive now.

we've always been massive cos

CITEH are .............