VAR thread 2022/23

[crazyg]

That's the problem though. There are so many examples that appear incompetent that it becomes difficult to spot any actual cheating. Personally, I think it's this way by design rather than accident, hence why they are so reluctant to give us access to live comm's.

Your comments remind me of this clip from a well known film.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Funny really, I was all for VAR, I guess I still am, but more in a form KS55 has put forward or very similar at least, but one thing I realised not so long ago, is that I couldn’t actually remember the last time I genuinely celebrated a goal fully with all the emotion and adrenaline involved after it had been scored.
Never imagined, as my thoughts have always been that getting the decision correct (haha) is/was the most important thing, and I could live with any inevitable ‘delay’, would have such an impact, but it has, you’re very right, it has sucked a hell of a lot of the enjoyment out of the game

I think this is it. It’s about the spontaneousness of celebrating a goal that isn’t as free as it was.

It‘s the feeling that it could be disallowed, rather than whether it is right or wrong to do so.

43 goals out of 1071 were disallowed by VAR in the league last season.
47 were awarded after being disallowed on field.

There are two major things I take from that.

1. They do tend to even each other out.
2. It’s only 4% of goals that celebrations were moot.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Maybe this self automation will make it easier still. Probably not given how it’s used!

Is that the same as semi-immolation?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Is that the same as semi-immolation?

Lol autocorrect strikes again!

semi.

 

[stan bowles]

The basic faults still remain:
It takes too long (in some cases, way too long).
The fans in the stadium don't have a clue what's going on.
There is no uniform application of the technology used to arrive at offside decisions. This 'drawing of the lines' things is a total farce.
Clear and obvious evidence to overturn the on field decision is not being used.

 

[remember arthur mann]

The basic faults still remain:
It takes too long (in some cases, way too long).
The fans in the stadium don't have a clue what's going on.
There is no uniform application of the technology used to arrive at offside decisions. This 'drawing of the lines' things is a total farce.
Clear and obvious evidence to overturn the on field decision is not being used.

 

[Cricket Blue]

Time to bring back Howard Webb and Graham Poll?

 

[hammerman]

So did the VAR team all meet this morning and say we’ll overturn West Ham’s decisions today? Is that how it works

Or is it decided pre season to favour Man Utd, Liverpool and now Chelsea ?

Honestly, how is this corruption working?

What actually happens is that the Premier League prospers most by having a close competition and having those teams that are most marketable abroad competing at the top. Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United.

I remember Richard Scudamore once saying that the Premier League is a poorer brand and it was a catastrophe when Manchester United didnt get into the Champions league. It devalues their brand as they are desperate for the teams that sell thousands of shirts in Vietnam and California to do well so they can charge more for the TV rights.

What we saw on Saturday looked to be manipulation since Chelsea were about to drop two points. You dont need to be a ref to know that decision was atrocious. The Virgil Van Dyke tackle on Onana also looked very suspect as well and as for Newcastles goal, it really still does not suit the PL to have Newcastle upset the usual Sky 6.

I dont have proof other than but if the authorities want supporters like me (I go to every home and away game and have had a ST for 37 years) to stop accusing them of being biased or corrupt then we need transparency. What is the point of their apology this morning. How does this help us get our point back.

I can handle watching my team lose. God knows, I have had enough practice of that but on Saturday I got home after the game and told my wife that I was not even angry. I am just weary of watching my team play not only the 11 players on the pitch but also the authorities who dont want us to be any way successful. I have started to fall out of love with the 'beautiful game'. What is the point of paying money and going to the games any more ?

I see it happening with Man City as well. They dont like you as you dont sell enough shirts. City were well deserved champions last year and have bought the best striker in Europe but click on Sky Sports and all we have heard all summer was De Jong, Antony or Fofana. Thats what foreign fans want to read about as they only care about the traditional big 6 clubs and I dont think they favour you guys yet either.

The premier league is no longer aimed at fans over here, we have had one Saturday KO at 3pm since March because it is set up for the foreign market hence why we had Carabao cup draws happening at 3am and ludicrous pre and post season tours. Liverpool schlepping all over Thailand and the US but then complaining that the Charity shield gives them no time to prepare. Man Utd have not had a non televised FA cup game for about 9 years FFS.

They won't do anything about this as 'Bad publicity is better than no publicity' and the fact we are all talking about it is great for them. It will make more people want to watch to see controversy. It will sell more and that suits them.

It is very sad and in my opinion is now barely a sport, more a theatre production that they manipulate to create a closer race. Good luck with VAR if you guys start to run away with the league again.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I used to be a referee and have run many lines in my time. It was relatively easy to judge offside when all you had to look for was whether the attacker was fractionally ahead of the second last defender. I think it would be very difficult for assistant referees to judge based on feet positioning. Feet will mainly be on or just above the floor. There could be many more feet obscuring a clear view of a particular player's feet, with bodies leaning forwards, backwards, sideways etc.

Using feet as the point of measurement will be harder for on field officials, but much simpler for VARs.

Just out of interest, when you were running the line, how would you have judged someone offside? Presumably, movement was too fast to identify where feet were in a running motion or arms? Was it just the torso? And you couldn't be looking in two places at once, so did you listen for the moment the ball was kicked? Only asking because, how VAR determines offside, I would think, should follow the way linesmen do it, and, as far as possible, how fans see it.

Franky, I don't know how linesmen ever get offsides right, there is so much to look out and listen for.

 

[crazyg]

I believe they're asking Alf Grey to come out of retirement to help out.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I think this is it. It’s about the spontaneousness of celebrating a goal that isn’t as free as it was.

It‘s the feeling that it could be disallowed, rather than whether it is right or wrong to do so.

43 goals out of 1071 were disallowed by VAR in the league last season.
47 were awarded after being disallowed on field.

There are two major things I take from that.

1. They do tend to even each other out.
2. It’s only 4% of goals that celebrations were moot.

I’ve found I literally end up rewinding through the build up (as best I can ) in my own mind as well as the last bit of action before the goal to see what can be questioned, no different to an actual VAR official I guess, only I’m there as a spectator for the “enjoyment”, whereas for them…..

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I’ve found I literally end up rewinding through the build up (as best I can ) in my own mind as well as the last bit of action before the goal to see what can be questioned, no different to an actual VAR official I guess, only I’m there as a spectator for the “enjoyment”, whereas for them…..

I do that too. It’s good for our own analysis of the game afterwards.

With tight offsides though, it’s impossible to tell in the stadium.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Just out of interest, when you were running the line, how would you have judged someone offside? Presumably, movement was too fast to identify where feet were in a running motion or arms? Was it just the torso? And you couldn't be looking in two places at once, so did you listen for the moment the ball was kicked? Only asking because, how VAR determines offside, I would think, should follow the way linesmen do it, and, as far as possible, how fans see it.

Franky, I don't know how linesmen ever get offsides right, there is so much to look out and listen for.

Not sure I agree with Paladin on the initial part ie scanning full bodies rather than the significantly smaller area of knee to toe, but it’s certainly a fuckin tough job, I’ve had to run lines occasionally in the past and the amount of grief ! But, it is incredible how often they do get the finest margins right, I’m sure there’s an element of guesswork at times, but still, you need eyes like a hawk.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Not sure I agree with Paladin on the initial part ie scanning full bodies rather than the significantly smaller area of knee to toe, but it’s certainly a fuckin tough job, I’ve had to run lines occasionally in the past and the amount of grief ! But, it is incredible how often they do get the finest margins right, I’m sure there’s an element of guesswork at times, but still, you need eyes like a hawk.

I'm just wondering why VAR imposes completely unrealistic expectations on an offside call. Linesmen can't be expected to judge feet position, surely, when that changes one fraction of a second to another based on stride patterns? How can they judge when the ball has left the foot when they are looking at an attacker and defender, surely they hear when the foot touches the ball,, So why not use the frame just before that happens to determine offside?how Do players also use the sound of the foot on ball to time runs? I have no idea who it works on the field, but surely VAR should reflect how things work rather than just impose unrealistic expectations on players and officials?

 

[Dirty Harry]

I'm just wondering why VAR imposes completely unrealistic expectations on an offside call. Linesmen can't be expected to judge feet position, surely, when that changes one fraction of a second to another based on stride patterns? How can they judge when the ball has left the foot when they are looking at an attacker and defender, surely they hear when the foot touches the ball,, So why not use the frame just before that happens to determine offside?how Do players also use the sound of the foot on ball to time runs? I have no idea who it works on the field, but surely VAR should reflect how things work rather than just impose unrealistic expectations on players and officials?

Agreed mate, I would imagine they have excellent peripheral vision, certainly better than most, plus the benefit of experience, but even then, they won’t get it right every time and need help.

 

[mat]

I don't see why the refs can't be miced up. What have they got to hide from the general public and fans.

The mic catching the naked mole rat what decision to give.

 

[BlueHammer85]

What actually happens is that the Premier League prospers most by having a close competition and having those teams that are most marketable abroad competing at the top. Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United.

I remember Richard Scudamore once saying that the Premier League is a poorer brand and it was a catastrophe when Manchester United didnt get into the Champions league. It devalues their brand as they are desperate for the teams that sell thousands of shirts in Vietnam and California to do well so they can charge more for the TV rights.

What we saw on Saturday looked to be manipulation since Chelsea were about to drop two points. You dont need to be a ref to know that decision was atrocious. The Virgil Van Dyke tackle on Onana also looked very suspect as well and as for Newcastles goal, it really still does not suit the PL to have Newcastle upset the usual Sky 6.

I dont have proof other than but if the authorities want supporters like me (I go to every home and away game and have had a ST for 37 years) to stop accusing them of being biased or corrupt then we need transparency. What is the point of their apology this morning. How does this help us get our point back.

I can handle watching my team lose. God knows, I have had enough practice of that but on Saturday I got home after the game and told my wife that I was not even angry. I am just weary of watching my team play not only the 11 players on the pitch but also the authorities who dont want us to be any way successful. I have started to fall out of love with the 'beautiful game'. What is the point of paying money and going to the games any more ?

I see it happening with Man City as well. They dont like you as you dont sell enough shirts. City were well deserved champions last year and have bought the best striker in Europe but click on Sky Sports and all we have heard all summer was De Jong, Antony or Fofana. Thats what foreign fans want to read about as they only care about the traditional big 6 clubs and I dont think they favour you guys yet either.

The premier league is no longer aimed at fans over here, we have had one Saturday KO at 3pm since March because it is set up for the foreign market hence why we had Carabao cup draws happening at 3am and ludicrous pre and post season tours. Liverpool schlepping all over Thailand and the US but then complaining that the Charity shield gives them no time to prepare. Man Utd have not had a non televised FA cup game for about 9 years FFS.

They won't do anything about this as 'Bad publicity is better than no publicity' and the fact we are all talking about it is great for them. It will make more people want to watch to see controversy. It will sell more and that suits them.

It is very sad and in my opinion is now barely a sport, more a theatre production that they manipulate to create a closer race. Good luck with VAR if you guys start to run away with the league again.

Fair enough, clubs outside the top 6 all claim Man City are part of this Sky brand also and think VAR is designed to benefit you and the rest of the top 6

personally I think the top 6 are mainly up there because they can buy the best players, its not that simple of course but when likes of Man U can keep chucking 50/60 million at players, eventually there results will improve, which is what we're seeing.

''it really still does not suit the PL to have Newcastle upset the usual Sky 6' next couple years they will be top 6, it's pretty obvious whoever spends the most will be up there and abouts.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Franky, I don't know how linesmen ever get offsides right, there is so much to look out and listen for.

very good point, they just have to make a guess. ridiculous really.

 

[mat]

I just don't see the point of releasing the audio after the event on youtube. What good could it possibly do? The only way it could help is if the audio is available in realtime. The Premier League really are small time establishment sycophants.

Premier League 'plan to release in-match conversations between referees and VAR officials'

The Premier League is reportedly planning to publicly release conversations between referees and VAR officials held during a match.

www.joe.co.uk

Agree.

It can be edited to suit if not broadcast real time.

We've seen it done in the Aussie League so what's the issue here?

Now PiGMOL have admitted they fucked up can West Ham sue if they get relegated by a point?

 

[halfcenturyup]

very good point, they just have to make a guess. ridiculous really.

Football seems to be a devilishly complicated game to officiate, referees and linesmen generally have my respect and sympathy. VAR was supposed to make their jobs easier, but I wonder what they actually think of it now?