VAR thread 2022/23

[BlueHammer85]

Haha

you ok ?

 

[BigJoe#1]

only captains can talk/shout at the ref, everyone else gets booked.

Simple solution

 

[mat]

only captains can talk/shout at the ref, everyone else gets booked.

I thought that was a rule already?

 

[inchy14]

Simple solution

Just like rugby. Simple and easy to sort.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Referee's have been mic'd up for a long time now. Swearing as an offence is easy to prove. The referee could ask VAR if the swearing was picked up on the microphone if there was any doubt that they'd just been called a c*nt. If a player or manager feels aggrieved at a sending off for swearing they could be sent a copy of the AV feed.

At the top level, you can swear about decisions happily. "Fucking awful decision, ref" happens regularly without punishment, as the swearing is viewed as not at the ref, but at the decision. It seems you can get away with swearing as long as you don't abuse the ref. "You're fucking useless, ref" is likely to get a card.

The same goes with rugby, although dialled down a lot. Players still swear, but not generally at anyone or about a decision - the 10 yard move for dissent mostly stops that. I'm not quite sure how they avoid picking it up on the ref mic, but it may be that the players are too busy shouting about other things, often to persuade the ref that the other side are breaking the laws.

It's pretty common in rugby union that the ref penalises what he sees, or what he thinks is the most important. He will usually let minor things and "six of one" type stuff go until he has to intervene. It's more technical, but not often subjective. They still make howlers occasionally.

Rugby is also a much slower game, and many punishments are codified; in football, the ref needs to decide if it's careless, reckless, endangering, excessively forceful...

 

[Jack Hackett]

VAR is ruining the game. It should be restricted solely to looking at offsides or red cards

 

[MillionMilesAway]

only captains can talk/shout at the ref, everyone else gets booked.

Doesn't work as a goalie as captain can't then do anything upfield.
I do agree that it could be cracked down on though, and some players are at it all the time.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Doesn't work as a goalie as captain can't then do anything upfield.
I do agree that it could be cracked down on though, and some players are at it all the time.

There could be a nominated member of their team if they didn’t want it to be the keeper.

 

[madloaf]

VAR is ruining the game. It should be restricted solely to 2019 - Sept 2022 and never be spoken of again.

Corrected

 

[MillionMilesAway]

There could be a nominated member of their team if they didn’t want it to be the keeper.

That would work.

I think IFAB would want it to be a global rule - it's pretty common, for example in Italy, that the international captain's armband is just the person with most caps.

 

[Carter1990]

Var is just a tool. Its a humans opinion at stokely park thats deciding the decisions. I heard souness this morn say that the west ham goal was correct to be disallowed but then many other ex professionals say it should of never been ruled out. During the Merseyside derby both jenas and mcmanaman said it was never a red for van dyk's shin tackle. This morn i heard 2 ex professionals say it was a straight red. So if ex pros cant decide what chance has a ref got who has never played the game.

 

[BlueHammer85]

That would work.

I think IFAB would want it to be a global rule - it's pretty common, for example in Italy, that the international captain's armband is just the person with most caps.

‘’Haha’’ apparently though

 

[Paladin]

Just out of interest, when you were running the line, how would you have judged someone offside? Presumably, movement was too fast to identify where feet were in a running motion or arms? Was it just the torso? And you couldn't be looking in two places at once, so did you listen for the moment the ball was kicked? Only asking because, how VAR determines offside, I would think, should follow the way linesmen do it, and, as far as possible, how fans see it.

Franky, I don't know how linesmen ever get offsides right, there is so much to look out and listen for.

I was a linesman in the Northern Premier League in the late 90s, and once at Maine Road for a FA Youth Cup game between City and Walsall. Crowds weren't that big or noisy, so it was how you put it, you listened for the point of contact of the player kicking the ball forward, whilst simultaneously looking along the line of the players. It wasn't difficult matching the sound of the kick with a snapshot of the player positions.

But even if it was too noisy to hear the kick, you would still watch the actions of the kicker, keep that in your peripheral vision whilst looking along the line of the defensive players.

Personally, I didn't find judging offsides too difficult, but that isn't to say I didn't make the odd mistake. I'm sure I did.

Sometimes you would follow play at the opposite end of the pitch and lose sight of the defensive line. Once you realised you were ten yards away from your correct position (often after being promoted by someone in the crowd), you would quickly get back into position.

For me, offsides were like those photo finishes you would see on TV at the end of a horse race, or a 100 metre sprint. One head (or body part) would be slightly in front at the point the ball was played. It was just a case of keeping your eye on who that person was, and raising the flag if he was an attacker. This was before things like active zones were a thing, but interfering with play was a consideration.

I suspect looking at feet only in making a decision would be very hard for assistant referees, but at least different sock colours might help.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Var is just a tool. Its a humans opinion at stokely park thats deciding the decisions. I heard souness this morn say that the west ham goal was correct to be disallowed but then many other ex professionals say it should of never been ruled out. During the Merseyside derby both jenas and mcmanaman said it was never a red for van dyk's shin tackle. This morn i heard 2 ex professionals say it was a straight red. So if ex pros cant decide what chance has a ref got who has never played the game.

ITs clear to me that there is no definitive rule for nearly everything in football, handballs, fouls. Everyone has their own understanding of any interpretation.

Because of that it should ONLY ever be down to the referee to give HIS interpretation of incidents. He should make the judgement because that IS whats happening now, we have 5 or 6 guys at Stockley all putting forward their own judgements causing some fkin confusing outcomes.

They will never get it right until they let just the one guy make the call every time. And we all have to trust him. Rather that than trying to trust decisions made behind closed doors by every man and his dog in the VAR room.

Bottom line though, its all judgement, there is no consistency and can never be.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

ITs clear to me that there is no definitive rule for nearly everything in football, handballs, fouls. Everyone has their own understanding of any interpretation.

Because of that it should ONLY ever be down to the referee to give HIS interpretation of incidents. He should make the judgement because that IS whats happening now, we have 5 or 6 guys at Stockley all putting forward their own judgements causing some fkin confusing outcomes.

They will never get it right until they let just the one guy make the call every time. And we all have to trust him. Rather that than trying to trust decisions made behind closed doors by every man and his dog in the VAR room.

Bottom line though, its all judgement, there is no consistency and can never be.

Ultimately, the choice at the moment is to accept that a referee will get 85-90% of calls right on the field or use VAR to up that to around 95%, and hopefully higher as it gets better.

Total consistency cannot be achieved whatever system is used.

There are good arguments for either.

 

[raybo]

Anyone ever wonder if VAR officials are influenced by TV commentators? For example Neville would often say "ooohh that looks bad". Remember few seasons ago, VVD tackle on Everton striker about to shoot on goal (fucking lifted him out of it) and Spitty saying "theres nothing in that" VAR never awarded penalty!!!?

 

[East Level 2]

Var is just a tool. Its a humans opinion at stokely park thats deciding the decisions. I heard souness this morn say that the west ham goal was correct to be disallowed but then many other ex professionals say it should of never been ruled out. During the Merseyside derby both jenas and mcmanaman said it was never a red for van dyk's shin tackle. This morn i heard 2 ex professionals say it was a straight red. So if ex pros cant decide what chance has a ref got who has never played the game.

Perhaps the refs are fully aware of the laws of the game. Something not required for players, ex-players and pundits.
What bothers me is that the match ref and the VAR ref can see an incident several times yet still balls it up so PIGMOL or the PL have to apologise. - Or is it possible that the laws of the game allow for subjective decisions?

 

[Stephen230]

Anyone ever wonder if VAR officials are influenced by TV commentators? For example Neville would often say "ooohh that looks bad". Remember few seasons ago, VVD tackle on Everton striker about to shoot on goal (fucking lifted him out of it) and Spitty saying "theres nothing in that" VAR never awarded penalty!!!?

VAR don’t have any outside influences. So no commentary. No knowledge of what replays TV are deciding to show. Some people on here don’t believe that fact but there’s not much argument you can put up to counter someone who thinks everything is one big conspiracy.

 

[york away to this!]

For offside, there should be a nominated part of the body. Say it was the toes. A chip inserted in to the toe of each boot would make it a definitive, rather than maleable, subjective decision.

Hold the salt and vinegar, though...

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Anyone ever wonder if VAR officials are influenced by TV commentators? For example Neville would often say "ooohh that looks bad". Remember few seasons ago, VVD tackle on Everton striker about to shoot on goal (fucking lifted him out of it) and Spitty saying "theres nothing in that" VAR never awarded penalty!!!?

We know that the TV producers and VAR officials are in contact with each other but we just don't know the extent of the interaction. For me the biggest issue is how they decide whch incidents to review. Some are looked at while others are ignored and it seems as if the broadcasters have some influence in this area. The lack of transparency in the process is a disgrace. Why aren't the paying customers shown what happens in the VAR room? We don't get to see how it works even after the match has finished. You can't trust this process if you can't see and hear it.